Detroit “Men’s Rights” conference, protests planned in wake of Santa Barbara

May 28, 2014
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Men’s rights group A Voice for Men has chosen Detroit for their first international conference, to be held at The DoubleTree Hotel on 525 W. Lafayette Blvd. June 26 to 28. Declaring the city an “iconic testament for masculinity” on their website, the group believes that most of the nation is turning a blind eye to Detroit, just like what they call a “men’s rights epidemic” goes ignored.

At least it might have been — until we last checked that 819 people from across the globe have signed an online petition on change.org demanding that the event be cancelled following last week’s Santa Barbara shooting carried out by Elliot Rodger, who spoke heavily in his manifesto about his hatred of women. And on June 7th, a group will gather at Grand Circus Park and march to the DoubleTree Hotel to demand cancellation of the conference. 

AVFM has stated on it’s website that its unsupportive of violent attempts to garner men’s rights, and claims it isn’t women-hating, just feminist-hating (in fact, several of the speakers set to attend the conference are female). Commentators on the AVFM website have voiced in numerous articles that they’re hopeful feminists — defined by Merriam-Webster as those who believe that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities — show up to further prove their point that opposing groups are man-hating. One article explicitly states that they hope to see anyone who has created a petition against the group in Detroit, saying “You will go down in history as no better than those who turned firehoses on peaceful civil rights activists.” 

 

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  • Incubus

    Well, there are many ways to write a slanted piece, and this is certainly one of them.

    Elliot Rodger (not Rodgers) killed more men than women, and the statements he made talked about only wanting to kill the women who had rejected him, whereas he wanted to kill all men just because. The fact that the media immediately says “Misogynist!” about this is exactly the sort of society-wide bigotry those of us in this movement are trying to put a stop to.

    He also wasn’t associated with the Men’s Rights Movement at all, he was associated with the online Pick-Up Artist community, which has nothing to do with the MRM. And what’s more, he stopped being associated with them because he was fed up with them! So even if you did think the two groups were one and the same, this still wouldn’t make any sense!

    This is why the movement makes statements about wanting the feminist protesters to show up to make themselves look foolish. It’s this kind of outright bigotry/ignorance that we’re talking about! And FYI, groups tend to be defined by their actions, not anyone else’s definition. I, for one, choose not to associate myself with the group that hailed Valerie Solanas as a martyr after she wrote a manifesto about cutting men into pieces and subsequently tried to kill two men.

  • crydiego

    Detroit is a great city, open to all ideas and views! Even to the idea that men and women are equals. The time has come and the MHRM is coming to Detroit to begin the beginning!

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    As one of the event planners, I have to say I am deeply disappointed that the leaders of the protest have refused to speak to us about their concerns, rebuffing every effort to offer them open and peaceful dialogue and to address any concerns they have. Coming to conference and speaking include people of color, Detroit locals, people from international locations such as Brazil, India, Australia, the UK, and other countries. Queer people, straight people, women, religious, nonreligious. We support their right to protest, that is a right we all have, but as I say, we are disappointed at the same time: we offered them an olive branch, our full contact information, and a willingness to talk, and were rebuffed. However, for the record, the offer of speaking to and with them is genuine and will remain open from now. They need only contact me at 313-334-4887, my local # here in Detroit, and I will be happy to explain to them what we’re really all about and address them as fellow human beings. We hope they take us up on it.

    Yes, I will be happy to talk to anyone from the Metro Times about it as well, on the same phone#.

  • Dennis Markham

    Elliot Rodgers was the product of a culture that taught males to evaluate their self-worth by women’s approval. AVFM fights for the polar opposite.

    MRM forever.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    I would like to offer a respectful correction. The protest cited here is not “in the wake of Santa Barbara,” but rather on the back of its tragic victims.

    As the conference’s chief organizer, I am unspeakably saddened to see individuals take the blood of innocent victims and deceitfully smear it on others for simply disagreeing with them. Their actions do, however, exemplify precisely why a conference such as ours is needed, and why we are determined to see it through.

    Paul Elam, publisher, A Voice for Men

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    With this sort of rubbish published it’s no wonder newspapers, TV and radio are dying all over the world, who would have thunk!

  • Reason

    Methinks the ladies doth protest too much!

  • Nutz

    I’ll add that he wasn’t so much as associated with the PUA community, but was a critic of them.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com TheBibo Sez

    “AVFM has stated on it’s [sic] website that its [sic] unsupportive of violent attempts to garner men’s rights”

    In reality, AVFM rejects both actual violence and calls to violence. My understanding is that anyone who acts with violence, even in self-defense, would be disavowed and drummed out of AVFM swiftly. This is a clear, long-standing and fundamental policy of AVFM.

    The protesters trying to stop the conference are liars and cowards, plain and simple, who are unwilling to discuss men’s issues directly, or even let men and women of an equal rights movement talk about their issues peacefully among themselves.

  • prymal

    I’d just like to know what rights men don’t have?

  • Incubus

    There’s a wide body of literature available in this movement for anyone who is interested in doing the research to learn about us. I would suggest starting with Karen Straughan’s “Me a feminist? No way!” video on Youtube or other videos by her about male disposability and female hypergamy, and taking it from there. You could also look into work by Christine Hoff Sommers about how boys are being short-changed in public schools, and even medicated for displaying male behavior, because of feminist-sponsored policies, some of which are documented to have been based on outright lies which feminist organizations told to the news media and Congress.

  • scanspeak

    Infant male circumcision

    Poor education outcomes.

    Majority of homeless

    95% of workplace deaths

    Anti-male bias in the family court

    Anti-male bias in the criminal court

    Poor health funding compared to females

    Paternity leave?

    Selective service

    Anti-male affirmative action

    3 out of 4 suicides

    Lower life expectancy

  • Bewildered

    Did you really think that it was a honest question ? In fact it exemplifies society’s/culture’s apathy towards men.
    It’s amusing to see how people who endorse unbridled gynocentrism are the biggest votaries of “EQUALITY”

  • Incubus

    Some people have honestly asked me the question before. Even if the asker wasn’t serious, it’s still important to keep discussing it so others who may come across it will be educated. But I see your point.

  • Frosty2013

    This petition is such a disgusting move by the feminists that it’s hard to imagine that it’s not some elaborate troll, it’s so fundamentally immoral to try and associate Elliot Rodger with the MRA or suggest that the MRA in any way condones violence against anyone, much less women, that it’s hard to imagine anyone with a functioning brain could possibly create this kind of petition with any sincerity.

    Alas the number of signatures seems to exceed the effort you could really expect from even the most elaborate troll, so we’re left facing the extremely sad reality that people are just this brainwashed by feminism.

    Protesting the right for a group to have free speech is at its core extremely immoral, this is a clear indicator that feminists do not want equality, they want power, power to silence opponents and have the only voice in society when it comes to gender issues.

    This whole thing is utterly sickening, the feminists that support this should be ashamed of themselves.

  • Matthew Lane

    He was a critic because there techniques didn’t work for him.

  • ShlomoShunn

    What privileges don’t W-O-M-E-N have?

    The entire excuse women have for living is: “Gots me a bagina!”

    They can vote, but don’t have to protect that right with the responsibility to serve in the military.

    No compulsion to register for the draft, either. Men must or face jail/fines.

    Can hit others with impunity.

    Get to stay home with chirrnens, making their own hours, never facing performance appraisals.

    Never buy drinks for men, yet expect same from boyos.

    Get kids and cash post-divorce. Vaginates think they “own” kids and never have to account for CS.

    Are never to be found on bridge repairs, road constrution, tunnel-digging, cross-country trucking, oil drilling, coal mining, lunar launches, etc.

    Women avoid all the dirty, dangerous task in lives.

    Rarely, if ever, do teh wimminz create things to help others: light bulbs, vaccines, washing machines, cars, computers, vacuums, microwave ovens, electricity, etc.

    Females live longer than men and won’t ever, in their enire lives, risk talking to men they don’t know to meet sexual needs. Instead, they act like passive objects to be “picked up,” then cry rape at the drop of a beer.

    They hink others must read their minds and meet never-articulated sexual urges.

    Females get millions more dollars for research on female-only diseases.

    They never volunteer to test new drugs in the numbers that men do.

    They expect men to take all the risk to “civilize” the world/environment, only horning in when things are tame and safe.

    Shall I go on, Mr. Mangina?

  • Frosty2013

    Men do not have the right to:

    - Be free from genital mutilation.
    - Fair criminal sentencing (Men serve more time for equal crimes).
    - Be protected by rape laws (feminists are redefining rape so only women can be raped).
    - Fair outcomes in family courts.
    - Consent to opt in or out of fatherhood.
    - The right to paternity leave.
    - Equality of support for shelters for the homeless or battered.
    - The right to not be opted into selective service.

    We don’t even apparently have the right to free speech because the radical feminists are trying to shut down and silence men’s rights meetings, protests and public talks.

  • Matthew Lane

    I always assume the question is a real one, that way even if its not, that person no longer has an excuse for ignorance & it serves as information for other people.

  • ShlomoShunn

    > “My understanding is that anyone who acts with violence, even in self-defense, would be disavowed ”

    Why? Are men to be punching bags?

  • Gerald Vrooman

    As long as men never get involved with women they still have a fair number of constitutional rights. As soon as they get involved with women those rights go out the window. There are family court judges who openly admit that the constitution has no place in family law. There was a time when a man’s home was considered to be his castle, and he couldn’t be removed from it without due precess of law. These days a man’s home is his wife’s castle, and he can be dragged from it with a single phone call to 911. A restraining order, which judges hand out like candy, can keep him from entering it for a long time if ever. He may still be required to pay the mortgage.
    The federal government is now requiring colleges and universities across the country to set up rape tribunals. These tribunals are little more than kangaroo courts where men are tried with little regard for due process. They are often not allowed to have lawyers, to confront their accusers, or to bring witnesses in their own defense. Although these courts do not have the power to imprison men, the men can be expelled from school and forced to sacrifice several years worth of education.
    Men can be fired from their jobs simply for offending a woman. The founder of The Backlash was fired from Microsoft simply for complimenting a woman. These are just a few of the ways that men lose their rights when they become involved with women. Someone who is more enterprising than I am could devote an entire article to them. A growing segment of the men’s movement, known as Men Going Their Own Way, prefer to shun women altogether, at least until the time when it becomes safe to get involved with women again.

  • Matthew Lane

    An because others have missed these lack of rights, i’ll include them.

    - Lack of due process rights thanks to feminist lobbied laws like VAWA. VAWA sidesteps ALL due process & assumes the person with a penis is immediately wrong & then incentivises the district attorneys office to file frivolous law suits against those men, by paying them for every such law suit brought forward, even if they are thrown out of court.

    - A complete lack of reproductive rights, across the board.

  • lensman

    Here is a small sample of rights that men don’t have:

    Men don’t have a right to a fair trial (at least as far as rape is concerned)

    If you are accused of rape and you don’t have a sizeable bank account you are truly and utterly f—ed. You are presumed guilty, perp-walked, your name goes into a sex-offender registry, and your life is effectively over, both socially and economically. In some states, due to rape shield laws you can’t even question your accuser

    To be completely fair, a quick search through Google Scholar shows that there are some feminists that oppose things like presumed guilt and rape shield laws, but they seem to be a small minority and they don’t really have that much of an impact on policy.

    Furthermore, the rape laws are being expanded so that if a woman has just one drop of alcohol and a man sleeps with her, he can get convicted of rape even if he was also drunk at the time. Feminists don’t even want to discuss when somebody can be considered too drunk to give consent, if buzzed sex can also be considered rape, or what happens when somebody deliberately gets drunk in order to lower his or her inhibitions. No, all drunk sex can now be legally considered rape. That is, if you are a man. If you are a woman, you are not accountable and you can even share your story of drunk sex on a public forum without fearing any repercussions.

    Heck, you don’t even have to drink. If a woman regrets having sex with a man she can still accuse him of rape because she wasn’t enthusiastically consenting at the time. It literally reaches the point where men will be forced to record everything in the bedroom out of fear of being falsely accused (even that may not save them, because it can easily be dismissed as “illegally obtained evidence” in court)

    Men don’t have a right to their own children (and their own money)

    If a man has children with a woman outside of marriage, the child is considered to belong to the woman. If a man has children inside marriage, they still belong to the woman and she will most likely get full custody. Oh, and before you recite the Lindy West list, I remind you that NOW, the biggest feminist organization, actively opposes joint custody. At best, after a divorce, a man gets to see his children for only a few hours and under supervision. If the mother is abusive to the children, or teaches them to hate their father she is not in any way held accountable.

    During a divorce, a man is expected to walk out of the house but leave his wallet behind. Child support is very often alimony in disguise and the mother has no obligation to spend it on her children or give any account for it. She can raise it for all sorts of superficial reasons, and once it gets raised it is extremely difficult to get lowered even if the man suffers unfortunate circumstances such as occupational loss or injury.

    Men’s other legal rights are legally non-existent (due to obligatory conscription)

    OK, so there hasn’t been a draft in years, and the US army is now largely professional, so you are forgiven for thinking that forced conscription is not a very important issue.

    You are, however, tragically wrong. The unfortunate implications of forced conscription is that you essentially belong to the government and can be forced to do its bidding.

    Want an example? In Greece, where I come from, there were protests and strikes by the Public Transport sector concerning the recent budget cuts and loss of working rights. Unlikely most protests it was a lengthy one and it had a big impact.

    So how did the Greek government get around the legal right of the workers to go on strike and protest the loss of their rights and livelihood?

    You guessed it, by forcefully drafting the protesters and forcing them to work on military pay (which is peanuts). Even protesting was now essentially equal to treason.

    Is this likely to occur in America? It’s not likely, but it’s most definitely legal. Your rights as a citizen, your rights to live, to protest injustice, mean nothing because the government can, at a moment’s notice, revoke them.

    OK, That’s it for starters…

  • driversuz

    The right to say “no” to military service, the right to due process if accused of a crime in college, the right to say “no” to parenthood *after* a child is conceived.

    For starters.

  • Steve

    So, another whiny, simpering idiot goes on a rampage because he didn’t get a pony when he was little, he was bullied, girls don’t like him, he has affluenza, blah, blah..
    If this men’s club here promotes self responsibility, and not the lawyerizing of the truth, I would be interested.
    But this puke was not a man. I am positive he was on a cocktail of mind altering drugs and has been since he was child, and now he acts like a drug addict.

    First sentence in first news story I read, “Apparently, he ws off his meds.” No one blinks an eye. The gun and anti gun zealots don’t know what to do because he also stabbed 3 people to death, so we know knives, grains of bullets, manifestos, YouTube star but no one is taking credit for his meds.

    Another news outlet says “the cops need to do more, check Facebook” etc..in their spare time? Here is an idea, if you cannot get through the day without 3 different meds 3 times a day, you have to go to rehab, you’re a drug addict. The court would order you to jail and rehab and give you a felony record if you were doing heroin 3 times a day. What is the difference between that and 3 Zanny bars and 3 Xanex and added with Abilify?

    If you are a man in America, and you have to have more than 3 pills a day to get through you need to be locked up. If more people on all these meds were told they would have to go into intensive therapy to get off them and be locked up unril then, maybe a lot of the scammers and posers would go away and the people who need the help would get it.

    If you are taking that much dope ( we may never know what meds this POS was on, but he was Hollywood so you can bet they were the good stuff )
    And like a not real man he kills people then kills himself, whrn he could have just killed himself.

    So if “be a man” means get a job, put a roof over your kids heads, and deal with your “issues” without getrig into piles of dope, legal or otherwise than I am good with it. This American privileged young man has so many “problems” he has to kill and commit suicide.

    Condolences to his family and the family’s of the other dead people. But place the blame where it belongs, at the feet of the man who apparently committed the crime….or, haul in the drug companies selling this garbage to 12 year old kids, haul in the shrinks, haul in the camera, the YouTube, blah blah..because they must be the reason this happened.

    Or, this guy is to blame. You want this to stop? STOP handing mild altering drugs to 12 year old kids and then acting shocked when they act like drug addicts when they are 20. Be a man and deal with it. Sometimes it ismokay tonsay “man up.”

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    We support the right of self-defense, but if you’re acting in any sort of capacity for us, we will not support anyone acting violent period. If you do that you’re on your own. And if you’re at a protest, there will be people trying to provoke you into lashing out at them, and then use that to paint all of us as violent, so if you can’t discipline yourself in such a way that your only response to violence against you is to run or hit the ground, you shouldn’t be there.

    I expect the violent thugs who oppose us to get violent. We will in no way, shape, or form participate in or condone any sort of violent reprisals. Period, end of story. It is our critics who are closed-minded, hostile, and violent.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    Due process rights are being stripped from men of all races at pretty much every level of government. And that’s just a start. There’s a whole lot else to learn, if you’re curious, but I can’t write you a comprehensive treatise here. You may want to come to the conference to learn more.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    It’s worse than you suggest. Here in Michigan, a man spent ten years in jail having been convicted of raping a woman he never even met and was never within miles of. She eventually was convicted of lying about him (she picked his face out at random), but not before his life was ruined by 10 years incarcerated for a crime he didn’t commit against a women he didn’t know and who didn’t know him.

  • Bewildered

    Shit !! That’s brutal. What kind of punishment did she get?
    That won’t stop them from pretending that the system is infallible though.

  • Andrejovich Dietrich

    Right to face your accuser and defend yourself under ex parte emergency action. To expect fair treatement in family courts. No fault divorce only applies to no fault for women. To expect the police to investigate the ex wife after she tries to murder you because you didn’t have a chance to alter the beneficiary on your life insurance policy.

    That the woman be held just as accountably for filing false police reports as a man. That she will be held to the same accountability for perjury as a man is.

    Bill of Rights? What Bill of Rights?

  • Andrejovich Dietrich

    This conference is such an explosion about to take place. Do the police realize just how much effort to maintain the peace this conference is going to be?

    Is any one really expecting fair protection from the hate group of violent feminists about to descend on men who aren’t allowed to defend themselves?

    I would have loved to go. However, having experienced our courts in action first hand decided that I could not afford the medical or legal ramifications of what I know is about to transpire.

  • farkennel

    I think it`s called a”slap on the wrist”.

  • farkennel

    Did you honestly expect the “sisterhood” to take you up on your offer of an olive branch?When in all history have the ruling bullies EVER said “ok lets talk”?

  • farkennel

    You have to be full on lowlife to use the actions of a troubled individual who goes on a killing rampage to further your hate agenda against men….just sayin`….

  • realraven2000

    Excellently put. Exactly what I felt when I saw his Youtube videos, he seriously emanated the stance of a rejected infant, which, looking at his history, he certainly was. His skewed idea of “maleness” was only informed by this defect he got from a childhood of neglect, and has nothing to do with the much more rational discourse that can be found in MRM circles.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    I’ve seen it happen. I predict we’ll see more of it in the coming year, just as we will also see a ratcheting up of the irrational hate directed at us. We’ll see if I’m right.

  • Gerald Vrooman

    William Hetherington lived in Michigan too. He was accused of marital rape during a bitter custody dispute. In 1985 he was sentenced to thirty years even though he had been offered a plea bargain of 11 months. The evidence against him was sketchy at best. This was far outside the sentencing guidelines for rape which were 6-10 years. He couldn’t get parole because he maintained his innocence. For awhile his case was a cause celebre among MRA’s but they could never muster enough cash or legal talent to help him out much. I sent him a small donation one time and received a pathetic letter in return. He was eventually released after serving over 24 years.

  • Junky

    big red slapping someone representing mrm would be media gold if caught on camera…
    Just Sayn.

  • prymal

    1. Men don’t have to serve either. All military is voluntary at this time. If the draft is brought back, both men and women will have to serve.
    2. Your focus on their vaginas shows you misogyny.
    3.Your generalities about them and the jobs they do are just wrong.
    Plus, when they do the same job as men they are paid a fraction of what the men make.

    You make a lot of stupid comments about how all women are the same. All men are not the same so why would you think all women are.
    I haven’t a clue where your ‘facts’ come from . But, not one of them is correct.
    Chances are some woman has hurt you or ignored you, so now all woman are terrible.
    You’ll never find a good woman because you repel them with your hate.

  • prymal

    Men don’t have to serve either. They haven’t for decades.

  • lensman

    You haven’t read a thing I’ve written, have you?

    I excuse you for skipping over my post, since the first few paragraphs where I talk about Men not having a right to a fair trial does sound a bit “out there” on the paranoid side.

    Anyway, I suggest you read the last few paragraphs about men’s rights being meaningless due to obligatory conscription, but in case you don’t want to read the whole thing, here is the main gist:

    No, you don’t have to serve, but you still have to sign up in order to be able to get such irrelevant things such as voting rights, a social security number and a driver’s license.

    And, again, as I have written the implication of obligatory conscription is that the government owns you, can take away your rights and force you to do its bidding. As I said, In Greece, where I live, obligatory conscription laws were abused in order to shut down peacefull protests and to force people who were on strike to go back to work by drafting them. And while it’s not likely to happen in the US anytime soon, it’s perfectly legal.

    You don’t have to serve to get screwed by obligatory conscription laws.

  • Spasmolytic

    If someone wants to use Elliot Rodger’s rampage as a means to censor these men than theoretically I could protest every feminist event because Valerie Solanas (SCUM Manifesto) shot Andy Warhol in 1968.

  • DukeLax

    The new Gender-feminist Klan…want to make a false accusation against the MRM, and than lynch the MRM……just like their predecessors the KKK used to make false rape accusations…and “Lynch” black men of the deep south.

  • DukeLax

    Dean …they can’t just “Lynch the MRM” on a false accusation, if they learned about the MRM.

  • DukeLax

    The “pork bloating triangles” that have developed in American law enforcement over the last 25 years…are unconstitutional, and are stripping guys of their basic due process rights.

  • fidelbogen

    Knowing them, they probably won’t take up the offer. But the point is to make the offer anyway – it can’t hurt. If they refuse, it’s a black mark on the feminist record and a gain for the non-feminist side.

  • fidelbogen

    Oh, how about equal protection under the law? That’ll do for starters, Einstein.

  • fidelbogen

    “You’ll never find a good woman because you repel them with your hate.”

    Explain why you wrote that sentence, given that it is not relevant to the discussion.

  • fidelbogen

    Why are you hiding your feminism?

    Quit playing games, and admit that you are a feminist.

  • fidelbogen

    You forgot to add” “Anti-male bias in education”, and “Anti-male bias in the culture at large.”

  • fidelbogen

    The worst of it is, they never explain who the hell they mean by “the men’s rights movement”. So they make unsupported accusations against unnamed people.

    What they are actually doing is a form of “profiling”.

  • fidelbogen

    You seem unnaturally obsessed with Elliot Rodger himself, as an individual. That’s odd, since he is not the real subject here.

    Red herring, much? ;)

  • fidelbogen

    Why is the phrase “men’s rights” placed in scare quotes?

    Why is the phrase “men’s rights” placed in scare quotes?

    Why is the phrase “men’s rights” placed in scare quotes?

    Why is the phrase “men’s rights” placed in scare quotes?

    Why is the phrase “men’s rights” placed in scare quotes?

    Why is the phrase “men’s rights” placed in scare quotes?

    Why is the phrase “men’s rights” placed in scare quotes?

    Why is the phrase “men’s rights” placed in scare quotes?

  • Jill Drnek

    Are you kidding me? Almost all of the comments here blame women, particularly feminists, for their problems. You’re olive branch is hypocritical, men have NEVER cared about issues facing women. Not only that, Men have created their OWN demise through their OWN violence and unaccountable entitled ego trips. They also fail to get through their woman hating skulls that MEN created all those precious rules around paternity they now suffer under. You know why? Because men of previous generations treated their families like garbage. Time for this generation to pick up the pieces, and quit blaming women for your problems. I have zero interest in a bunch of rapists running around a city that can’t seem to get through their backlog of RAPE KITS.

  • Jill Drnek

    Actually, if more violent men committed suicide, the world would be a better place.

  • Jill Drnek

    Just because no woman on earth wants to have sex with you, does not mean the entire gender has to suffer. Feminists are not to blame for your sexual rejection.

  • Jill Drnek

    I can’t believe illiterate trash like you is coming to my great city. You don’t belong here. Do me a massive and go get lost on the east side.

  • Jill Drnek

    Because you clearly blame women for your sexual rejection. Try losing weight and improving your wardrobe, like women have been told for years. Chics don’t like hateful fatties

  • Jill Drnek

    Because YOU can’t discuss men’s right logically without blaming women for your problems. You’re a hate group, plain and simple.

  • Jill Drnek

    And you’re another misogynist spouting hot air. Point?

  • Grey Knight

    Where is your evidence, citations, y’know… facts? You’ve added nothing but shaming language, polemics, feminist rhetoric and conjecture. I’m pretty sure you know how to communicate effectively without resorting to such tacitics.

  • Gerald Vrooman

    As long as they aren’t really drafting anybody, women shouldn’t mind having to sign up. After all they haven’t drafted anybody for decades.

  • prymal

    Both men and women head to ‘sign up to vote, drive or get a SS number. Where is the sexual discrimination?
    You’re SO wrong about SO much I’m not going to bother debating.

  • prymal

    Most guys don’t sign up anymore. It’s not enforced. If they ever go back to a draft, both men and women will have to. As it should be.

  • teck

    Logical rational conversations with domestic terrorists is not possible. Your leader openly advocates rape and shaming of women. The sad things is, I’m on board with you on everything, I refused to circumcise my son, I have issues with suppression of his physical play in school, I fear who will prey on him either violently or sexually, I’m concerned about false rape accusations he may face, I’m concerned about the hypersexualized violent culture he will be forced into to prove he’s a “man.” But to blame feminists is way off base.

  • driversuz

    No, women will not have to, but men sure will.

  • driversuz

    Men are required by law to register for the draft; they do not have the right to say “no” to registering or to being called up should the draft be reinstated.
    Men don’t have to serve if the government doesn’t order them to.

  • driversuz

    Exactly what one would expect from a feminist, and exactly why the MHRM exists.
    What a nasty piece of work you are.

  • wakjob

    Who openly advocates rape and shaming of women? No leader of mine.

  • Steve

    Um..its in the head line. This is a he man woman hating group according to the author and over 800 people have cited this man’s rampage as a reason not to have the event. This guy is a catalyst for all of that.

    My thought on the tie in is this wasn’t a real man, he couldn’t hold a job, mommy and daddy had another kid called his meds, and because he couldn’t talk to girls it was okay to kill random people. And the finger pointing and the blame go round and round, but the amount of meds these people (theater shooter, school shooters, etc ) take gets shoved under a rug, and that I believe is partly because the drug companies own the media with how many ads they buy.

    Gun companies can’t/don’t advertise so they are the automatic latch on.
    So if I red herringboned it for ya, I am sorry.

  • Steve

    That is funny..and I believe that would be statistically correct. Men who beat women are cowards. Flat out cowards. Women who let it continue to happen are enablers.

    The best thing for Lanza, Rodger, etc…would be if they would just kill themselves. Instead, they kill innocent people, then take their own life.
    So…Jill is correct here.

  • Steve

    Youch! Now I have to keep reading, did you guys make fun of each other’s names yet?

  • lensman

    Since, when? As far as I know (i.e. from what I read from wikipedia) it’s young men that have to sign for selective service in the US, not women. I don’t rule out the possibility that I might be wrong (I don’t live in the US and I might not have caught up with current events) but the wikipedia article claims that only a handfull of countries conscript women -the United States isn’t one of them. Could you please provide a reliable source of information for what you are saying?

    Here in Greece, it’s the men that have to sign up and lose two years of their lives following moronic orders dressed in putrid green and then stay in reserve just in case a war breaks out. In fact, one of the main reasons the Greek government was able to use the draft to break the strikes in the Public Transport sector was that the overwhelming majority of bus and train drivers were men (a good argument for equal representation in the workplace, I guess).

  • Steve

    Dean, that is true and wrong. But the man, who was accused was picked by this woman partly as an easy target…because he was long time loser. Career convict and already guilty in another sexual assault.
    She was long time con woman…sad situation all around, but also jury fault lies here too, as they convicted the man on testimony alone. No science.

  • Dennis Markham

    Because the idea men have rights is silly.

  • Dennis Markham

    Male privilege
    -Having a .00005% chance of becoming a Senator or Fortune 500 CEO, instead of a woman’s .00001% chance (also notice how the percentage of female CEOs and politicians matches the percentage of female breadwinners: obviously you can’t be a CEO as a part time job. So there’s zero evidence of discrimination)

    -Being less likely to live in poverty because poverty scales to the size of your family, and its much easier for women to create and retain offspring whenever they wish. This is obviously the reason because childless women under 30 make 8% more on average than men.

    Female privilege:
    -The ability to abandon parental obligations through abortion or adoption

    -3 to 4 times less likely to be a victim of violent crime

    -8X less likely to be thrown in jail if you DO default on your parental obligations.

    -Getting to throw your partner in jail if he murders your unborn child.

    -Getting to pretend your gender is the exclusive victim of rape when in reality men get raped just as much as women (we just call it “made to penetrate”)

    -Recieving 96% of alimony payments.

    -Controlling 70% of consumer spending

    -Half the risk of homelessness

    -More assistance if you do become homeless

    -Domestic Violence shelters

    -Retiring earlier.

    -The ability to call the police on an abusive spouse without being arrested 80% of the time due to the Predominant Aggressor Policy.

    -More money if injured in war time

    -Special help with education even though your gender is almost twice as likely to attend college and 20% less likely to drop out.

    -40% less time for the same crimes

    -De facto default custody of the children. (which also means default custody of the child support, car, house, and alimony)

    -Being able to decide when your spouse sleeps on the couch or goes out with friends (because the aforementioned default custody means you have a gun to his head and are allowed to treat him like a slave)

    -44 forms of birth control

    -Mandatory insurance coverage for all your birth control (vasectomies are conveniently left out of Obamacare, while tube tying is covered)

    -Being able to chose your role in the family (breadwinner or home-maker) and retain respect eitherway.

    -Having 5X as much Federal money spent on your health while the other gender dies five years earlier.

    -11X less likely to be incarcerated.

    -Being statistically happier in every single study published on the subject.

    -Getting to say all your genders failures are due to discrimination, while all men’s failures are because they suck.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    Oh that makes it all OK then–he had a record, he’s a “loser” so it’s really no big deal that he had his life destroyed.

    And they tell me misandry isn’t real. Your sentiment is beneath contempt, Steve.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    Men have always prioritized the interests of women over their own. Your statement is misandrist from the very first sentence.

    Most of the rest of what you’re saying is hateful, aggressively ignorant nonsense, which you’d find out if you treated us like human beings instead of inferior animals. The olive branch remains for you to grab.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    You’ve been fed a steady diet of outright lies. Full stop. You have a chance unlearn the lies, but only if you’re willing. The olive branch remains extended.

  • driversuz

    What about violent women? Shall we hold women to the same standard as men?

  • crydiego

    Do you really think this kind childish shaming works anymore? You truly do not know the first thing about the Men’s Rights Movement.

  • crydiego

    Again, shaming does not work anymore, but feel free use it. When other people read what you write, they will also see you for what you are.

  • Guest

    From what I hear, you have made not effort to contact any organizers. Additionally, a quick google search of your name as the organizer places many, shall we say, interesting hits. I personally enjoy the “Encyclopedia of American Loons” where your denial of HIV causing AIDS stands out quite clearly. Odd that a person of such caliber would have their event at the same time as PRIDE Detroit.

  • Guest

    How many unreported rapes are there because of fear of an unfair justice system? False rape claims are minimal in comparison.

  • Guest

    You mean the government that men run? Gotcha.

  • Guest

    Look at all the rustled jimmies.

  • Guest

    He wasn’t a critic because he was a fan of women.

  • teck

    You’re avoiding the points, conveniently accusing these mythical people (feminists?) of lying. I know Paul Elam, I’m familiar with his writing from several years back. His language is defensive and hateful, he clearly despises women and himself, he is not interested in dialogues on human rights, just blindly aiming at feminists, with no accountability back to the men who run every institution he complains about. Just like you. Now you have blood on your hands, your rhetoric has gone off and murdered both men and women. Well done, nice progress for MRAs. Still no paternity leave, but we have dead college students, because one of your kind couldn’t get laid. You are not welcome in this city, but then again, our immense backlog of rape kits and dead ladies and babies by the hands of men make us a perfect spot, amiright!

  • Guest

    You blogged these things. You said them. Sorry, digital age “bro” so its a lot tougher to scrub your lunacy.

  • moreprivilegesforwhitedudesplz

    “Dean Esmay is a rather well-known blogger, HIV-denialist and
    Peter Duesberg fan. While he’s probably a (somewhat and sometimes) smart guy, his understanding of science
    and critical thinking is sorely deficient (well, “breathtakingly absent” may be
    closer to it). Esmay fancies himself a skeptic, but when you lack the basic grasp of science and the scientific method,
    denialism and crackpottery will easily be the outcome, a fact that is
    hardly better or more painfully illustrated than by the case of Dean
    Esmay.”

  • Guest

    In his response to that article, he also talks about how cool it is to be a climate skeptic. Kudos, Esmay.

  • Steve

    I actually said it wasn’t ok, I merely pointed out that this guy was a POS, with a history of violence against women.

    So..if your all anti violence at all time, you may want to check your poster boys’ record. You want to help him? Speed up the appeal process.

    Again, it was wrong all the way around. Just so it was clear, the fact that he ran into an evil woman was exacerbated by the fact that he had a long history of criminal activity which included violence against women.

    Enjoy your event.

  • Steve

    Yes. It would be helpful if violent women did the same thing, especially the ones who kill their kids. If they could just do it to themselves 1st.
    Equal is equal.

  • Dennis Markham

    How the HELL does blaming feminism negate blaming men?

    Feminism allows men an outlet to indulge their most primal, primitive instincts: to protect and impress females while dominating and aggressing against other males (who represent competition for resources and a mate).

    It allows men an outlet to pander to their wives.

    It allows men an outlet to play hero so that ditzy damsels will faun before them.

    It allows men an excuse to bring their empathy more in the direction it naturally wants to go: towards the beautiful, delicate, adorable angels they want to sleep with and away from the hairy, scary, physically imposing uglies who compete with them for a mate.

  • Realman

    Founder of A Voice For Men say:
    “And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex
    with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m..
    Sometimes both of these women end up being the “victims” of rape.

    But are these women asking to get raped?

    In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.

    They are freaking begging for it.

    Damn near demanding it.

    And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing
    justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of
    women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often
    arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A
    STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their
    empty little narcissistic heads.”
    Then defends that by calling it satire. lololololol

  • Whaaaaa???

    Sooooo these “Men’s rights activists” take a few legitimate concerns, like the homeless population and workplace deaths and military mortality, and somehow blame them on women? Haa what a joke. I went to the website, it’s mostly whining about feminists and women, not actually doing SHIT to remedy these societal ills. I almost feel sad for them.

  • Doug Hart

    I have two daughters. I care about women’s issues. It’s instinctual and intrinsic. You need to go sell your shit at the dorm cafeteria.

  • Doug Hart

    Another feminist troll! I bet if you took a poll of the members here and asked how many of them troll feminist sites, carpet bombing them with irrational and hate filled comments, I am guessing the number would approach zero. But you guys just can’t help yourself from coming here and shitting where we eat. Sociopath much?

  • Doug Hart

    One right men do enjoy is the right to decide whether we would rather fight in a war or go to prison.

  • http://www.genderratic.com/ Alison Tieman

    You’re not a real man.

  • Doug Hart

    God lady! Ever heard of projection. You are the embodiment of it. Google it. read it. Learn why you hate people you think are haters

  • Doug Hart

    How many times does the guy need to pay his debt to society before he is square with the state?

  • Doug Hart

    Driversuz,men have the right to say no to military service…….and yes to a lengthy prison sentence and $250,000 fine.

  • Doug Hart

    It won’t be long until she compares Fidelbogen to hitler. And when that happens the rules say the argument is officially over.

  • Doug Hart

    I registered for the draft at the age of 18 how about you prymal?

  • Doug Hart

    You are really not doing your cause any favors. This site bemoans the extent that shrill irrational women have taken over the good things in life, and as if to prove our point you appear calling us illiterate trash that can’t get laid in a cathouse with a roll of one hundred dollar bills. CHICKS like you are why prostitutes earn so much money. Men don’t pay for sex we pay for women to leave as soon as it’s over.

  • Doug Hart

    Steve IS a little obsessed on the dopehead angle there. I hope this isn’t projection.

  • driversuz

    If you think we don’t actually do “shit,” you weren’t at the site for more than a minute or two. You are displaying your ignorance.

  • driversuz

    Lucky bastards!

  • Reason

    I don’t think you’ll get it. It involves reason, and clearly you’re on a mission.

    I disagree that a whackjob carries a politically-relevant message, and therefore that means I hate women. Gotcha’.

    Q: How many politicians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
    A: “Misogyny!”

    You’re an old joke, Adele.

  • Reason

    Troll on a mission. Adele? Is that you?

  • Reason

    Wasn’t it men’s rights activists that laid down a reward for info leading to the arrest in the d’Entremont case? It seems the only whining nothing-doers are the feminists in THAT case.

  • Reason

    Troll on a mission.

  • scanspeak

    Most violent men became that way because their primary carer (usually the mother) beat them and the disfunctionality continues. We need to start holding women accountable for domestic violence against boys and men.

  • scanspeak

    MRAs are not to blame for your sexual rejection.

  • Dennis Markham

    Men sit in the Senate, but women have the majority of votes. Men control the Fortune 500, but women pull their purse strings.. Men sit at the throne, but his wife is always behind him watching with a judgmental gaze.

    Men rule, but women pull the puppet strings. Both men and women are to blame.

  • lensman

    Not yet, we prefer to use arguments, but we have pointed out in the past that Elam’s surname is “Male” spelled backwards.

  • Dennis Markham

    I agree that’s a terrible and callous article, but you had to go back four years to dig that up. It’s NOTHING compared to the amount of “rape apologia” that comes out of the feminist movement. In these PAST FEW MONTHS ALONE:

    -David Futrelle telling a man forced into sexual intercourse by a woman TO HIS FACE that he wasn’t raped, just sexually assaulted.

    -Amy Schumer getting cheered and rebloged by 100s of feminists for telling about sex she had with a guy who was so drunk he passed out several times during the encounter

    -Doug Barry on Jezebel saying “Then again, if this is true, then congratulations to Brown…for turning a personal confession into yet another opportunity to showcase how unpleasant he seems.” in regards to Chris Brown ‘losing his virginity’ at age 8.

    -Mary Koss saying “Although men may sometimes sexually penetrate women when
    ambivalent about their own desires, these acts fail to meet the legal
    definitions of rape that are based on the penetration of the body of the
    victim.” – Mary Koss

    -Adele Mercier saying that adult women having sex with underage boys in detention facilities is not rape and just reflects that people like to have sex

    That’s 5X as many ugly comments in 1/12th the time frame. So I guess that makes feminists 60X rapier.

  • scanspeak

    Give a specific example. I bet you can’t.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    Speeding up the appeals process would certainly be one good thing to do. Ending the Guilty Until Proven Innocent standard men like this often face is another.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    I blogged none of those things, sorry.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    I’m sorry, but you’re making gross hateful generalizations. The fact is that our conference speakers include 1) The first black female Senator in North America and founder of one of its first domestic violence shelters, 2) The founder of the modern Battered Women’s refuge movement, 3) The former President of the New York chapter of NOW, who has been cited by TIME and others as one of the most influential thinkers of the 20th Century, 4) multiple recognized and respected clinical psychologists and college professors who deal professionally with issues faced with men and boys.

    These people are willing to stand with us because they know what we stand for. Yes, we as a publication have sometimes used firey, provocative language–as if any civil rights movement has not had provocative firebrands. The opportunity at dialog has always been there, and remains extended to anyone open-minded enough to take it. Refusal to do so indicates more about those opposing this peaceful human rights movement than it does about us.

    The offer remains. 313-334-4887.

  • farkennel

    I agree.It will be hard for them to take the high moral ground when they wont even talk to the organizers.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    No in fact I made multiple attempts to contact and dialog with the protestors on their Facebook event pages–this being the only public place I could find contact information. Comments I and others I work with tried to leve were civil. They were deleted and we were thrown from the page. We have screen shots of what we said. Women of color, gay and trans people, and others who attempted to engage in civil dialog were also ejected from the group’s Facebook page for making attempts at honest, forthright dialog. We have screen shots to prove it. So once again, I am making the effort: 313-334-4887. Pick up a phone. Call us to talk about your concerns.

    Quoting silly things written about me on the internet doesn’t change the truth about what I say here.

  • teck

    This is what happens when men are fed a steady diet of porn. You do not look at women as autonomous human beings, you’re still stuck in that adolescent boy fantasy jerking off to women who will never want you. Its men like you who feel entitled to “punish” women for not acting according to this delicate angel fantasy you think should exist.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    You are mistaken. There are a number of legal penalties you can still face if you don’t register. In many states you cannot get a driver’s license without registering. In some you cannot vote. There are a host of government programs and services that you become ineligible for if you did not register, and that can follow you for life; I dealt not long ago with a laid off autoworker in his 50s who was trying to get government assistance for training for new skills, and was turned down because he hadn’t registered for Selective Service. The ironic bit is he had not registered because when he turned 18 he tried to join the military but was rejected for medical reasons, so he assumed he did not have to register. He is now too old and not allowed to register, and is being denied services.

    The notion that the Selective Service requirement on males is no longer enforced or that refusing to do it is a trivial thing is one of many common myths that need to be talked about. And from what I can tell, we’re among the few talking about it. (And that’s just in this country by the way; conscription is commonplace in half the world, with boys and young men forced to serve around the world.)

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    Our government is run by a tiny oligarchic elite of both sexes who do a very poor job of representing everyday, ordinary people.

  • teck

    Nice demonstration of entitled angry male name calling. Do you talk to your daughters like that when they say something that offends your violent prone fragile American male ego?

  • lensman

    The reason you see such a low percentage of false rape accusations is actually very simple: only false rape convictions of serial accusers are documented and even then they are categorized as “unfounded”. A false accusation that gets rejected by the prosecution because of unreliable/non existant evidence, doesn’t get to be included because it never reaches court in the first place. A rape accusation that gets rejected outright by the police interrogators doesn’t get to be included because it never reaches court in the first place. A first-time false accusation by a girl who later admits she lied doesn’t get to be included either, because, more often than not, she doesn’t get convicted as a false rape accuser but on grounds of perjury (if at all).

    To go back to your question… we simply don’t know. There’s no accurate way to know, as there is no way to know how many of those cases that get rejected and never reach court are actual rapes.

    What I know is this… according to the Stern Report, Conviction Rate for rape is 57%, when it does go to court. And quotes such as the oft-mentioned “only 6% of rapists get convicted” that get spread around in feminist forums and spaces are largely responsible for why a lot of rape victims don’t report their crimes.

  • Doug Hart

    It ain’t what I called you, it’s what you answered to.

  • Doug Hart

    Um Jill…men don’t like hateful fatties anymore than women, so take a hike back to the parisian runway you from whence you sprang.

  • Doug Hart

    Speaking of entitled! I looked into my crystal ball and it told me you have flat tire. Better go flounce down on the sidewalk and pout so some guy will fix it for you so you in time for you to go have lunch at T.G.I.F.’s

  • Jill Drnek

    Nope, but women don’t go out and murder and rape, and ya know, rape babies because of it.

  • Jill Drnek

    Right, blame the mothers. Nothing about the violent fathers who beat the shit out of their kids, and the boyfriends who beat the shit out of kids. You’re group is truly detached from reality.

  • Jill Drnek

    For a bunch of trolls ready to come to Detroit unwelcome….damn skippy.

  • Jill Drnek

    Men like you are so unfuckable, its the reason why women make boat loads of cash off low vibrating trash like yourself. That’s a totally rational statement my friend.

  • Doug Hart

    There you go sweet talking me again!

  • Dennis Markham

    Ummmm, wow, nice sexist presumptions from an angry little troll. What does any of that have to do with what I just said?

  • Dennis Markham

    You promote this hypersexualized culture. You call men don’t have sex losers. You say men who find sexual outlets that don’t risk them becoming parents or getting diseases are bad people. You say men should evaluate their worth based on how many women would chose to sleep with them.

    If your son ever gets tricked into parenthood by a girl who “forgot” her pill, because he felt ashamed of being a virgin, you have no one but people like yourself to blame.

  • Dennis Markham

    You’re a complete fucking moron. Elliot was a product of people like you, who call young men who can’t get laid losers and tell men to evaluate their worth by how many times the opposite sex rubber-stamps them. That’s what the MRM is trying to fight. It’s feminists who want males to base their worth around what women think of them, like Elliot did. Not the MRM.

  • Jill Drnek

    Uncle Tom, is that you???

  • Jill Drnek

    ANd you’re a pretend woman?

  • Jill Drnek

    Steve – hey, Michigan is the birth place of Assisted Suicide. I strongly believe if you can’t handle society, you can’t handle your problems with your grown up panties, want to get all pissy and violent about it, than off yourself first. Don’t burden our health care system or put yourself in the legal system draining our tax dollars, embrace the Equal opportunity for all = SUICIDE. I would contribute to billboards around the country promoting it.

  • Jill Drnek

    Exactly what one expects out of an Uncle Tom.

  • Jill Drnek

    Men could also stand up to the violent men who send them to war to begin with! But I forgot, its the feminists fault.

  • Jill Drnek

    Ever hear of misogynist? Google it, your picture comes up

  • Jill Drnek

    Men have shamed women for centuries, I don’t give a fuck anymore what most men think, especially unfuckable douchbags like you. Its amazing how entitled you monsters are.

  • Jill Drnek

    Yup, I fucking failed the delicate angel test for the men on this board. That’s why I’m awesome.

  • Jill Drnek

    Oh, I’ll troll you guys until your plane leaves Metro. You don’t even have to ask, I just do it for fun.

  • http://www.genderratic.com/ Alison Tieman

    Nope.

  • Doug Hart

    Speaking of unfuckable. I wouldn’t fuck that garbage disposal vag of yours with a dogs dick.

  • Guest

    Seeing that I know the organizers, I know that is a flat out lie. You did not make an attempt to contact them, rather you trolled a FB page. That is not an attempt to contact organizers.

    Now that we see you have (again) flat out lied on a public forum, why would we believe anything else that you say?

    Putting out MRA nonsense on a clearly feminist page is like saying you tried to contact the UAW while driving a Datsun to their meeting. That’s not legitimate, and frankly, stupid.

  • Grey Knight

    Most of the emotionally laden statements I’ve seen thus far are from the feminist camps be it male or female. Is it so hard to have a rational discourse? I’ve yet to see a screenshot or something about all the claims brought about showing that the Men’s Human Rights Movement promotes violence. On the other hand, there are things like #killallmen and yet without skipping a beat, somebody will say “Not all feminists are like that!” whereas a lone gunman kills four men and two women and somehow he’s magically tied to being a MRA and a PUA. If you can’t see the hypocrisy on that, then I doubt anything else I may try to discuss will be in vain.
    Furthermore, Those two groups (MRA’s and PUA’s) tend to be mutually exclusive. I’ve seen the masthead on AVFM specifically denouncing those who promote violence. I’ve yet to see something similar from feminists.

    With allthese diatribes and insults being thrown around, there’s this maxim that I’ve heard from somewhere and goes something like this: “Truth stings those who are willfully gnorant.”

  • Reason

    Adele Mercier’s new pseudonym, I presume…?

  • JohnnySocco

    Delphine LaLaurie number of victims : Unknown

    Lavinia Fisher number of victims : Unknown Jane Toppan number of victims: 31 Belle Sorensen Gunness number of victims :at least 40 Amy Archer-Gilligan number of victims: 5-50 Bertha Gifford number of victims: 3- 17 Nannie Doss number of victims: 11 Dorothea Puente number of victims: 3-9 Aileen Wuornos number of victims : 7 Gwendolyn Graham and Cathy Wood number of victims:5 All of these WOMEN are pretty famous serial killers…. the last 2, Graham and Woods, are not only killed their elderly victims in Grand Rapids Michigan but did so after raping them. ya know, women don’t rape and kill

  • Grant

    We don’t know who they are, we can find a facebook group, but – surprise – there’s no contact information to talk to them in person. The Managing editor of AVFM gave his personal phone number for the purposes of alleviating their concerns. We don’t expect everyone to know what we’re about, we expect fair treatment including intellectual honesty. The BEST option we had was to go on their facebook and attempt to publicize our views to those not too biased against us to listen. Trolling is posting deliberately inflammatory information to try to get a reaction. Obviously it is not credible for us to post screencaps of what used to be a series of conversations, but if you have information on a person or persons portraying themselves as MRA acting in an abusive way and deliberately flaming; we would be glad to hold them up to the light and let the community deride their actions.

    Please tell us what we should have done to “properly” contact the organizers of this page without implying that we should completely change our point of view….

  • driversuz

    I guess school’s out for the summer, eh? Go outside and play now.

  • driversuz

    White Feathers

  • The Equalist

    hahaha you’re like a gift to the MRM movement. I bet at least 50 more people (men and women) have taken interest in their movement just by reading the vile shit you’ve emitted on this page about men. Scary man haters like you are the reason that the MRM movement needs to exist and will continue to garner more support. So…please carry on being yourself. On and p.s. glad you admit to being a troll. AS IF NO ONE COULD SPOT THAT lol

  • The Equalist

    You’re so right about that…she actually is guilty of everything that she’s accused everyone else of…hate speech, misandry, being unfuckable, completely made up facts, entitlement in lying and thinking that people will believe her, and when she started calling random people fat….that was so telling….no more krispy kremes for this one…

  • Steve

    Nice! Haha

  • Steve

    I am with you Jill. These pukes are taking up too much time, using valuable resources and hurting innocent people.
    How about a billboard that says – “Save the world, kill yourself.”?
    Then run the disclaimer, “only if you are a violent malcontent who somehow cannot handle all the 1st world ‘problems’ you have. Its ok to be bummed out, depressed for awhile and then drive on, but if you are so hurt by others that killing people who don’t even know you seems like the answer, then chew on a pistol already.”

  • dejour

    No, it isn’t blaming women. It’s blaming society (which includes women).

  • dejour

    No, she’s appeared on tv supporting men’s rights.

  • Aarow

    Hey, I’m not a guy, so maybe they need this. It’s hard to understand. Men don’t live with the knowledge that they could be raped, or physically overpowered. To me it seems like a pretty comfortable perch. But I’m not on it. Maybe the perch needs a safety net? It’s all a little unclear to me.

  • dejour

    Elliott Rodger wasn’t an MRA and has no links to MRAs. He had links to pick up artists and anti-pick up artists, which are different things.

  • bonobomammoth

    Your “HIV denialism” is a silly thing you wrote yourself though. Maybe your new employer has asked you not to comment directly about HIV, since your graduated to groups claiming women lack moral agency and can’t be friends with men.

    “The real reason men and women cant be friends is that women lack moral agency.” – AVfM

  • Benjamin Senigaglia

    I’m not sure where you are getting your information, but seven years ago when I turned eighteen, I was told I had to register for selective service or I would not be able to vote. I got an envelope with a little pamphlet in the mail from the US government telling me exactly that. I live in California. I do not know any men who did not register for selective service, even the ones that never registered to vote.
    What is ironic is most of the women my age I have talked to about this had no idea that men had to register for selective service, let alone that they could not vote if they didn’t register. It simply was not on their radar because it did not apply to them.

    It is my opinion that either nobody should have to register for selective service, or everyone should.

  • Mark Wharton

    Since one man did something atrocious men do not deserve rights. Well this i the protestors rationale anyhow. I suppose when women murder women also do not deserve rights. No rights for anyone!

  • Mark Wharton

    They have enough people believing that they would never do such a thing though still.

  • Mark Wharton

    When you make accusations such as “your leader advocates rape and shaming of women” that you at least show some citation or proof. It is the courteous thing to do. Blaming feminists is off base. Check the other times feminists disrupted events advocating the same things you claim to advocate.

  • Mark Wharton

    Maybe she means feminist leaders?

  • Mark Wharton

    Logic and rational thinking are tools of the patriarchy to oppress women.

  • Mark Wharton

    Spot on, it is utterly DISGUSTING to use these horrible murders to push unrelated agendas of bigotry and hate.

  • DukeLax

    Have you heard any of “big reds” screeching hysterics?? google… “big red toronto” on you tube

  • Mark Wharton

    Not really, it is a much bigger hurdle then that.

  • Mark Wharton

    Thank you for all the examples you provided to back up your assertion.

  • Mark Wharton

    You do realize that men have to sign up for the draft at 18 still.
    2. Focusing on vaginas does not show misogyny, there are biological differences between men and women.
    3. wage gap has been debunked over and over. Women who are single without kids make more then their male counterparts.

  • Mark Wharton

    Trolls will be trolls, unfortunately these are the same type of trolls protesting an event advocating basic rights for humans.

  • Mark Wharton

    Yes, we get it, you are a bigot.

  • Mark Wharton

    Yes, that is my response when bigots say. Well if you don’t want to be accused of rape don’t have sex, when I advocate for basic human rights for men such as due process.

  • Mark Wharton

    I believe this is what the rape shield laws are for, to make sure the jury does not know when these habitual false accusers have that history.

  • Mark Wharton

    And you know this how? Things typically only get into the false rape category if the woman is convincing enough to get it to trial and then admits that she lied. Anything is is simply unfounded where we do not know.

  • Mark Wharton

    You do realize that prymal is a bigot troll

  • Mark Wharton

    What bubble do you live in?

  • Mark Wharton

    MMM, more of that male privilege I hear about

  • Mark Wharton

    Men who are elected by a country that is influenced by feminists and a majority of the electorate are women.

  • Mark Wharton

    Yes, women do not get that privilege.

  • Doug Hart

    If she is calling us fat and ungroomed then I suppose that’s what she is………
    Let me put that in terms even she can understand! We are rubber you’re glue, everything thing you say bounces off us and sticks to you.

  • Steve

    Wasn’t thinking specific man group. He was a person who shouldn’t have been walking amongst us. Whatever his mental health issues were they could not be solved with cocktails of numerous doses of medications.

    I didn’t know the guy personally, but truly strikes me as one of whiny ones. I have to have everything I want and it has to be perfect or I will throw a temper tantrum.

    And again, if he would have just taken his own life as the little drama queen he was he would have saved 6 other lives and a ton of sadness for other people.
    He was a selfish little snot and caused great pain for no other reason than his own selfishness.

  • Steve

    That is part of it as I understand it, It also allows women some protection against testimony, etc regarding rape, rape kits, pregnancies…I have only seen it used once and it was trying to be overturned by the defendant so he could use it for his case.
    Dean got himself in a lather thinking that I said it was ok for this guy to go to prison for it. Which was not the case at all.

    Again, you want to help the falsely accused you do that by speeding up appeals process. The man didn’t committ the crime and it took ten years to clear him.
    It would also bury the guilty a lot faster. Either way, it has to be sped up.

  • Grey Knight

    Imagine, if you will, being held accountable for everything you do, not having reproductive rights, being considered intrinsically evil and having your life based on your utility so 90% of workplace deaths are your demographic. Privileges we guys have is outstanding!

  • joseph4gi

    So MRAs are accused of being responsible for the Santa Barbara shooting, and are accused of inciting violence against women.

    Feminists respond by making violent threats.

    Am I missing something?

  • karen straughan

    Yes. MRAs are bad and feminists are good. Therefore, even peaceful speech by MRAs is bad, and even violent threats by feminists are good. Didn’t you get the memo?

  • karen straughan

    I just wanted to respond by saying I appreciate your open-mindedness. I think we’re all going to be influenced by our own experiences (as you said, men don’t live with the knowledge of certain things, though I don’t know that this matters–whether or not they fear it less, men are more likely to be assaulted or murdered than women are), so it can often seem that the “other” has a pretty comfortable perch compared to our own. The ability to consider that this may not be the case, or at least that it may not be as cut and dried as we think, is something not all people seem to have.

    We could all benefit from calming down and trying to embrace other perspectives sometimes. If you’re from detroit, and the threats of violence and vandalism don’t shut down the conference, maybe you should consider attending to get an idea of what the issues are? We’re really not a scary bunch once you get to know us.

  • karen straughan

    Me too! I’m a fat, ugly, neckbeard loser who lives in his mother’s basement and can’t get laid. I know this because feminists told me so. Which means my gynecologist is incompetent–think I should probably report him…

  • karen straughan

    Re Chris Brown, there are studies showing that the majority of men who rape women were heterosexually abused in their childhoods or adolescence, and that there are strong correlations between male rapists and male domestic abusers. Gotta wonder whether the woman who raped Brown at age 8 had some influence on him becoming a man who would beat his wife…

  • karen straughan

    Just to note, as well, the people who made the statements you’ve cited did not claim to be engaging in satire–they really feel that way.

  • karen straughan

    If you’re from out of state, you might be able to get travel medical insurance at very little cost. I’ll be getting a crap-ton of coverage before I leave for the conference, just in case.

  • karen straughan

    Actually, the coercive medicating of mostly boys for the “mental illness” of “rambunctiousness”, despite no understanding of the long term effects, is a major issue in the MRM. One psychologist claimed boys in school are treated like “defective girls”, and when they don’t act like girls they get ritalin shoved down their throats. The now-routine use of mind-altering substances before the brain is fully developed (in males, age 21-25!) is a gigantic social experiment about to blow up in our faces, and NO ONE wants to address the fact that it’s mostly boys were experimenting on, primarily for the convenience of mostly female educators.

  • Andrejovich Dietrich

    I am thinking of redoing the motion picture “They Live” and all the subliminal signs are all the messages we hear from Feminists.

  • Andrejovich Dietrich

    Wow…Isn’t it like a feminist to use race as a chick shaming tactic against a woman. Bait and switch, when outright lieing is ineffective.

  • Andrejovich Dietrich

    Better a pretend woman than a pretend human being.

  • Paul

    The right NOT to be a parent if he doesn’t want to be.

  • Dennis Markham

    Yeah, I know. Can you link me to those studies? I brought this up arguing with a guy yesterday but couldn’t find any sources.

  • karen straughan

    A lot of these studies are hard to dig up. Some of them are old and haven’t been digitized (they’re pdf copies of research done in the 1980s and 90s) and difficult to search through google. A lot of people will claim that this means they’re out of date, but as far as I’m concerned, if a rapist convicted in the 1980s was heterosexually abused by a woman in his childhood (1970s or earlier), that only points to the fact that we’ve been ignoring certain problems for a long time. And they’re not exactly highly publicized when they come out, either. These are things people don’t want to think about.

    I’ll see if I can put my hands on them again, but I can’t make any promises.

  • http://www.StudioBrule.com Steve Brulé

    We need a Men’s Movement because there are so many people like Jill Drnek

  • lensman

    Yes, I do, but If I am wrong about something, I want to find out.

    It’s the way I think, I am a scientist, I can’t help it. Give me enough data and I will change my mind (and as the edit wars in the “Men’s rights” and “feminism” pages show, Wikipedia isn’t the most credible of sources)

    Anyway, I notice he hasn’t replied with a credible source yet.

  • prymal

    They know what causes pregnancy now. There are many ways to prevent it. If he doesn’t want to be a father, he should be responsible enough not to get someone pregnant.

  • lensman

    Because you most likely won’t understand what driversuz is refering to, let me clarify a bit:

    During the first world war, a lot of women who were on the suffragete movement (i,e. First Wave Feminists), were involved in the “White Feather Campaign” which was all about shaming men into joining the army for the war. They did so by sewing white feathers into the back of men who didn’t wear uniform (which often included men who were returning from the front and underage boys who were too young to join the army). So here we have a movement that fought for the vote (which at this point most of the men didn’t have either) all the while making sure that men and only men faced the horrors of war.

    By contrast, in Greece, during the Greek revolution, women often fought alongside the men. We have at least one female war hero, and plenty of poems that depict women dying on combat or commiting suicide so that they wouldn’t become chattels to the enemy.

  • lensman

    You know, here in Greece we have had over 7000 suicides (both men and women) that were caused by the austerity measures, the closing down of businesses and the brutality that people endure in their everyday lives.

    And we have always politicians and upper class people like you who claim that those over 7000 people who commited suicide were “defective” and had “Brain Problems”. They absolve responsibility for the horrors that their actions cause by blaming the very people they essentially murder either by excessive taxation and pay cuts or by neglect and indifference.

    Honestly, I don’t have a rational response to this…

    …except maybe one…

    Fuck You and Jill and everything that both of you stand for.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    1) So-called “HIV denialism” Is a change of subject and derailment, and has nothing to do with AVfM, but anyone who wishes to speak to me as if I’m a human being and not a monster should feel free to contact me about it.

    2) This quote, “The real reason men and women can’t be friends is that women lack moral agency” is not a statement I or anyone I know or work with would support, unless it’s some sort of ironical statement you quote-mined out of one of our articles somewhere without context. It’s certainly not our position. Once again, anyone who wishes to see us as human beings rather than faceless inhuman monsters can contact us to ask us about these things–the number again is 313-334-4887.

  • Steve

    Maybe the point has not been conveyed properly here.
    I do not advocate suicide, EXCEPT in cases where a suicide case turns into a homicide case before the suicide.
    All these recent cases have privileged white boys, who cannot “function” and are medicated past what people on drugs are.

    Where I stand is: if you are not able to handle yourself in society, check yourself in before the rampage.
    Stop giving little kids psychotropic meds. Just stop. The “cure” for made up diseases like ADD and ADHD is NOT and never will be long term drug addiction.

    People in Greece killing themselves because the government stole their money isn’t even close to what is being discussed here, however, in their case, maybe they should throttle their government leaders 1st.

    As a side note, I am not upper class, as a matter of fact I work with addicts every day. Addicts of drugs, both legal and not legal, and other dregs and drains of society in America, and my observation is as it stands. We have created generations of drug addicts through prescription medications, at the same time spending billions arresting and trying to rehabilitate people through the corrections system to get off street drugs.

    Again, how Greece suicide matches up to pissy little whiny boy killing numbers of people before that coward takes his own life escapes me.

  • Steve

    Then MRM is on the right track. Thanks for the update.

  • Paul

    Women also know what causes pregnancy.
    Woman have MANY more ways to prevent pregnancy, and deal with it after the fact that men do not.
    “get someone pregnant” interesting turn of phrase, kind of like you think females have nothing to do with the process and have no responsibility for it.
    The point is once a pregnancy occurs a man can be forced into parenthood, a woman cannot.

  • http://trololololololololololo.com/ derpatron5000

    Are they also offering free testicle re-attachment procedures as well?

  • Mark Neil

    “Almost all of the comments here blame women, particularly feminists, for their problems.”

    Women and feminist are not synonyms. “Blaming” feminists is not the same as “blaming” women, given a lot of those “blaming” feminists are, themselves women, and many of the feminists being “blamed” are, themselves men, it is incredibly dishonest to make such an assertion.

    Furthermore, you’re not even open to the possibility that any “blame” is deserved. Yet, the tender years doctrine was pushed forward by feminists, and is largely responsible for the current state of family courts. The removal of No fault divorce (another feminist action), without any adjustments to related laws such as alimony and custody to account for the changes brought about by the removal of no fault. The pushback against shared parenting by feminists, despite social science showing shared parenting as generally being best for children. The erasure of male victims of domestic abuse through such feminist models as Duluth, and the continued pushback from feminist organizations. The erasure of male victims of rape by prominent feminists, such as Mary Koss in her definitions of “rape” and “forced to penetrate” found in the CDC NISVS… because including men under rape would diminish women’s victimhood. Then there are things like primary aggressor policies (put in place because the mandatory arrest policies were getting to many women arrested for abuse, so something had to be put in place to ensure it was men always getting arrested). And this is just some examples of the initiatives feminists have implemented or pushed for that have had a direct negative impact on men. If you want to blame this on patriarchy, then you will be admitting that feminism is an agent of patriarchy, not an opposition to it.

    “You’re olive branch is hypocritical”

    How do you figure. Even if they were blaming women and feminism for everything, that doesn’t make an offer to discuss the issues hypocritical.. if anything, it demonstrates an pen mind and a willingness to have their views challenged.

    “men have NEVER cared about issues facing women”

    And this is an example of the victimhood, and the hatred bread from it, that feminism promotes, fuels even. This assertion is demonstrably false… so much so I don’t think I even need to discuss it, but if anyone else wants me to, just respond and I will.

    “Men have created their OWN demise”

    That sounds like a rather ominous threat… is men’s “demise” really so forthcoming? How will such a “demise” be enacted? Will it be at the hands of feminists?

    ” that MEN created all those precious rules around paternity they now suffer under”

    At the behest of women…something men would not have done if your assertion men have never cared about women were true.

    “Because men of previous generations treated their families like garbage”

    And… what you’re saying is that, because men allegedly used to treat their family as garbage, and put into law policies based on that assumption… men today aren’t allowed to ask for those laws to be changed because…doing so is hateful to women? Do you seriously not see the perpetual victim cycle in that? When men put in place laws that granted women custody, it was because they hated women, but now that men seek more custody, it is because they hate women. Is there a scenario where men DON’T hate women in your worldview?

    “and quit blaming women for your problems”

    We don’t. We blame gynocentrism, which is an element consistent to both traditionalism and feminism.

    “I have zero interest in a bunch of rapists”

    Are you accuse men (and women) who wish to attend this event of being rapists, simply because they hold conflicting opinions to your own? Way to marginalize real rape victims.

  • Mark Neil

    “Seeing that I know the organizers, I know that is a flat out lie.”

    “Now that we see you have (again) flat out lied on a public forum, why would we believe anything else that you say?”

    So we’re supposed to take the word of an anonymous “guest” account over someone who has provided their real name, phone number and offered to provide screenshots to prove their case?

    “Putting out MRA nonsense on a clearly feminist page is like saying you tried to contact the UAW while driving a Datsun to their meeting”

    So you admit they posted on your page and you deleted it. Given your visceral reaction to mens rights in general, I wouldn’t be surprised if you viewed “hey, we’d like to discuss this with you, here’s my number: XXX-XXX-XXXX as “MRA nonsense” just to justify removing it.

    All in all, I think you actually proved he was speaking truth in your attempt to call him a liar.

  • Mark Neil

    Feminism and women are not synonyms. Stop using them as such and you may be able to have a reasonable discussion with MRA’s. Furthermore, your assertion makes it sound like even suggesting feminists (or even women) play any part in the issues men face as being hateful… do you deny that women, and especially feminists, routinely use the “man up” and “you must be a loser that can’t get laid” shaming language? These types of language perpetuate male gender roles and reinforces the idea of a man’s value being determined by their utility and approval of women, one of the fundamental ideas that drove Rodgers to rampage. Do you deny women’s part in this shaming language? or is your objection against the MRM baseless and self serving?

  • Mark Neil

    Actually, scanspeak did include fathers. They said ” their primary carer (usually the mother) beat them”. So, when you assert they said “nothing about the violent fathers”… you’re not only outright lying (ether that, or asserting fathers can’t be primary caregivers), or else you are trying to deflect attention from abusive mothers and place it all on fathers. Sounds a lot like what you keep projecting onto the MRM about always blaming women. It seems as if it is YOU that is always blaming men.

    “and the boyfriends who beat the shit out of kids”

    And so, the mothers that bring these boyfriends into their childrens lives and let the abuse continue… they hold no blame?

    Wow, you have a very chauvinistic men=bad, women=good worldview. And you call the MRM a hate group?

  • Mark Neil

    “Men like you are so unfuckable, its the reason why women make boat loads of cash off low vibrating trash like yourself.”

    That’s the kind of shaming language that drove Elliot to murder. The idea that a man’s value is measured by his desirability to women. Way to perpetuate the problem.

  • Mark Neil

    “If the draft is brought back, both men and women will have to serve.”

    There is no evidence of that. Currently, selective service (what the drat will use to choose it’s conscripts) is specifically male only. Furthermore, many opportunities are directly linked to selective service. A man can no get a student loan or a government job unless he signs up for selective service, women can get these without such obligations. This is a direct violation of the right to equal services based on gender.

    “2. Your focus on their vaginas shows you misogyny.”

    Does that mean the feminist focus on penis shows their misandry?

    I’m curious, of all the great answers you’ve gotten in response to your question, why was it THIS comment you chose to singularly respond to? Was it because it was the easiest to attack?

    Reproductive rights are one right men have absolutely no rights in that women do. Be it the right to opt out after conception (of which women have 3 options in the US and most of Europe, while men have none), the right to maintain parenthood should they wish it (I agree, men should not be able to stop an abortion, but many states are making it far to easy to cut men out from being able to stop an adoption, and even when they try and succeed to defend their paternity, the courts take so long they determine despite him being recognized the father, it is in the “the best interest of the child” to stay with the adoptive parents) and, of course, in custody law (and support law, where debtors prison, deemed a violation of constitutional law back in the 19th century, is commonplace for fathers)

  • teck

    Wait, let me get this straight, are you threatening violence? Do us a favor and kill yourself instead. #YestoSuicide

  • Mark Neil

    No more than all the feminists asserting that Elliot murdered because of manhood.

    The fact you would even TRY to paint what I said as a threat is demonstrative of how the feminist movement’s painting of the MRM as a terrorist movement is entirely self serving and based on silencing opposing views rather than anything MRA’s have actually done.

  • moreprivilegesforwhitedudesplz

    just so everyone knows, the doubletree has NO KNOWLEDGE of either that letter OR of any threats made to staff. Sounds like the MRA’s just found a new fundraising scheme…. lol.

  • moreprivilegesforwhitedudesplz

    Call the doubletree and ask them yourself 313-963-5600

  • teck

    Its clear your group is violent and unstable. Misogynist terrorists with fragile egos. Everyone with a gun should be prepared in Detroit. Ps, that’s a lot of people here.

  • Mark Neil

    Is THAT a threat?

  • lensman

    It has to do with the fact that I have talked to people, mostly upper class, and politicians, that have called those people “faulty”, “defective”, and, yes, “whiny”.

    See, this is kind of a touchy subject for me, because I have friends that have attempted to end their lives, and I work in a hospital where I have encountered suicide attempts numerous times (it’s not pretty). Depression is disturbingly common right now, and most people here just don’t have the money and resources to get professional help.

    I see your line of thought, but honestly, how are you going to get people like Rodger commit suicide before they start shooting? Put up a billboard? Run a commercial? And if you do, how are you going to deal with the fact that a lot of people suffering from depression, people who don’t really deserve to die, are going to see that billboard or that commercial, think it applies to them and attempt to end their lives?

    People like Rodger don’t really suffer from depression, they… have other more serious issues. I am not a professionally, trained psychotherapist and I am sure there are better minds than mine that can give a more credible answer as to what those issues are, but whatever they are they make them more likely to lash out and hurt others before they hurt themselves.

    Ultimately the big problem is that nobody really cares about those kinds of people until it’s too late. Nobody cared that Rodger posted videos on YouTube about his violent fantasies. Nobody cared that he posted a 140 page manifesto about his painfull child and how he plans a “day of reckoning” to punish those he deemed responsible for his perceived misery. Nobody cared….

    …until he started shooting.

    By the way, I’ve dealt with drug addicts too, thought not on a day to day basis. You have my respect for being able to handle those kinds of people effectively.

  • Anti MRA Gun Carrier

    LOL, you guys are outing yourselves quite appropriately on this page. You know Detroit is COVERED IN THE FBI, RIGHT? Fucking idiots. And you’re a violent fucking terrorist. All I see these days are teenage girls committing suicide because of male bullies like you. And you justify violence because of words said to weak minded fragile ego pathetic men. This is why the SPLC has classified you as a TERRORIST GROUP. You are a fucking loser and a genetic loser in the gene pool. I will be armed, if any of you come near me, I can’t guarantee you’ll walk away alive. You are not welcome into Detroit, you’re dumb violent human trash.

  • Fucking liar

    Violent entitled fucking liar. You haven’t study feminism whatsoever. I will be armed against your group.

  • Fuck off

    We need feminism because human trash like you advocates violence when people don’t want to fuck you.

  • LIAR

    Really? Because a few of your people on here believe Elliot Human Trash Rodgers was justified in his murder because he was sexually rejected. You know your people advocate violence? That makes you a terrorist.

  • Fuck off MRA Troll

    No, you clearly hate women. You’re a fucking violent terrorist, and I will be armed and prepared when your trash infiltrates the city. You don’t belong here.

  • Delusional MRA terrorist

    Fuck off. You just can’t stand feminism because women demand being treated as equal human beings. You are a delusional domestic terrorist. I will be armed against human trash like you.

  • You fucked in the head, bro

    You’re mental illness is showing.

  • No, you really are a loser

    Do you think the childish anti-woman logic I see on here works? You guys are fucking losers.

  • Suicide!

    Go fucking kill yourself and make the world a better place.

  • MRAs can’t stand truth

    And men send you to war. But your twisted fucked up mind blames feminism for that. That makes you American Taliban Terrorists.

  • http://kristalgarcia.wordpress.com/ Kristal Garcia

    If men ‘NEVER’ cared about women’s issues, feminism wouldn’t exist. Know the history of your own movement.

  • Don’t breed at all!

    Are men too lazy to buy condoms? I don’t get it, you have a multi billion dollar porn industry to jerk off to. Clearly, when men impregnate a woman, they were asking for it.

  • http://kristalgarcia.wordpress.com/ Kristal Garcia

    You have no clue what you’re talking about, you just like the lies so you have someone to hate.

  • http://kristalgarcia.wordpress.com/ Kristal Garcia

    Did you just say you are going to bring weaponry to a protest?

  • http://kristalgarcia.wordpress.com/ Kristal Garcia

    Elliot Rodger was not associated with us. He was an anti-PUA and we are not associated with anti-PUAs nor PUAs. If you would have done your research you would have known that. The MHRM does NOT advocate violence but feminists do. The MHRM explicitly states it does not advocate nor support violence. I have yet to see feminism do this, it does the opposite, it supports and pushes violence.

  • http://kristalgarcia.wordpress.com/ Kristal Garcia

    Another threat of carrying weapons. This is the second one I’ve seen so far.

  • http://kristalgarcia.wordpress.com/ Kristal Garcia

    You are threatening my life. I’m an MRA. The only one threatening violence here is you. Life threats are criminal. You are not above the law.

  • Misogynist cupcake

    Misogynist cupcake. Did you miss the justification of violence by Elliot rodger on this message board?

  • Misogynist AND delusional

    LMAO. “What the hell does porn have to do with dehumanizing women” Lets be honest, you’re beef with feminism is just another form of misogyny. This is why people like me have to stand up to human trash like you.

  • Fuck off

    Are you going to talk to your daughters about the 1 in 3 threat of male sexual assault and abuse? OR are you going to teach them that the men who commit these actions are victims? Wait don’t answer that, we already know.

  • Uncle Tom

    Misogynist cupcake. You actually think women who advocate protection from violent men, equal pay, more women in government, more women in leadership, is promoting violence? You drank the Uncle Tom Kool-Aid. Just admit it.

  • Don’t come to Detroit

    Then take your entitled violent male pity party somewhere else.

  • Paul

    “men impregnate a woman” nice, What does a man do point his finger and say “BINGO” and she’s all of the sudden pregnant?
    The point I’m making is once a pregnancy occurs the woman has MANY options to relieve herself of the trials of parenthood, a man has ZERO OPTIONS.
    Ejaculation does not equal consent to be a parent.

  • Jill Drnek

    The men and women of Detroit work too hard to allow a bunch of misogynists in this city. This group is a human rights shame to men and women. I highly suggest the DoubleTree end this conference.

  • http://kristalgarcia.wordpress.com/ Kristal Garcia

    We are non violent and you’ve just confirmed terrorist conspiracy against us.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    You do realize that the FBI, Detroit police, homeland security and many Consulates and Embassies have been and will be continued kept up to date about you and your type.

    British, Australian, Indian, French and Canadian with more to be added in the next few days.

  • Jill Drnek

    Boy, you sure do worship male entitlement, power and control. Unfortunately, you’re full of shit. Feminism has been designed by women for women.

  • Jill Drnek

    Attacking feminism is an attack on the progress of human rights. People like you believe women should not have 1st Amendment rights to speak out about their perspective of the human condition. That makes you a domestic terrorist.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    Jill, how about I buy you a one way ticket to North Korea honey, a place much more suited to your mindset dear.

  • Cordovan Splotch

    PUAs are such big fans of women that they devote their lives to attracting as many of them as possible.
    Being a “fan of women” does not necessarily make you a good person.

  • http://kristalgarcia.wordpress.com/ Kristal Garcia

    Don’t speak for me. I’m a woman and I have my own voice, I would never be against myself and other women not having 1st Amendment Rights, you speak nonsense. Speaking up against feminist lies are not an ‘attack’ it’s holding feminism accountable. You are promoting violence, we are nonviolent. We have the freedom of speech to stand up to a corrupt organization. We the people have the right to stand up to an organization gone corrupt. We the people have the right to stand up for human rights and that includes the human rights of boys and men. Not one of you has stood up against the violence your group promotes. You just proved that and have proven terrorist conspiracy against a human rights movement.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    Men don’t live with the knowledge that they could be raped, or physically overpowered

    Rellay so in the history of the human race a man has been assaulted or raped. Sure thing you fucking moron.

  • Cordovan Splotch

    I certainly hope the FBI is watching us all closely, that would be absolutely great for us!
    “This is why the SPLC has classified you as a TERRORIST GROUP.”

    Really? First your ilk go around spouting that the SPLC has classified us as a hate group so much that the SPLC has to come out and make an official statement about how they have done no such thing.
    Now you’re saying they’ve classified us as a terrorist group?
    Are you actually an MRA trying to make feminists look crazier? If you are, please stop, it’s wholly unnecessary.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    Jill – Let me guess you are a upper class white chick? May I suggest you go live in a third world country to find out a thing about life, BTW no submitting your report untill you turn 50. No wonder so many of my white mates go Asain, gezzzz!

    EDIT or go MGTOW

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    Q) Yep and what do the lynchings in the south and feminists lynching of MHRA’S have in common,

    A) white women.

    ****************NAWWALT*****************

    ****************NAWWALT*****************

  • Jill Drnek

    You are anti feminist. You are anti human rights for women. You believe women should not have 1st Amendment rights to free speech. You believe women should return to the days of domestic violence and domestic slavery. You believe women are not equals, do not deserve equal pay. You believe the 90% male violence rate and burden on our legal system, PAID BY AMERICAN TAX PAYERS, is the problem of feminism. You, sir, are a terrorist.

  • Jill Drnek

    Nope, they’re too busy dealing with male violence. You are anti feminist, you are anti human rights for women. You are a domestic terrorist threat.

  • Jill Drnek

    You are desperate. Not one of you has stood up to the 90% violence rate perpetuated by men. So quit attacking feminism when its men who cause the violence.

  • http://kristalgarcia.wordpress.com/ Kristal Garcia

    You have yet to denounce the terrorist threats feminists are saying towards MRAs. You are supporting terrorist action.

  • http://kristalgarcia.wordpress.com/ Kristal Garcia

    We do not condone violence, but you do. You keep saying ‘domestic terrorist threat’ but clearly do not know what that means ” “the unlawful use of force or violence, committed by a group(s) of two
    or more individuals, against persons or property to intimidate or coerce
    a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in
    furtherance of political or social objectives.”

    You just defined feminists as domestic terrorists. MRAs are not against protesting, we are against violence and death threats. Had you wished to protest non-violently that is your human right. However, feminists, as you can see in this thread, are saying they will be armed. Not once have you stood against this. You are supporting a terrorist group, you are a domestic terrorist threat.

  • Jill Drnek

    You are anti feminist. You believe women should return to the days of domestic violence and domestic slavery. You believe the days of “marriage license is a wife beater license” should return. You believe 15% female leaders in Congress is too many. You believe women should be paid less. You believe women “ask for it” when they are raped. You believe women should tolerate abuse. You believe men have the right to leave their families, abandon their children financially and emotionally, to run off with other women. You believe children should be abused by fathers because these overgrown monsters are considered the “head of the household.” Lets just say it, you are misogynist and anti-human.

  • Jill Drnek

    Really? Teenage girls are raped, bullied, abused, and committing suicide. Now where did high school boys learn that? Feminists? Women are paid less in America. Women are restrained from leadership positions. But the multi billion dollar porn industry is alive and well. Men have spoken.

  • Laurence de Carle

    If men are the ones with the power then how did feminism make any progress without the approval of men?

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    Teenaged boys are raped about as often as teenaged girls, and they are far more likely to commit suicide than teenaged girls. Perhaps if you spoke to us like human beings you could learn about things like this, and more. But if you declare us inhuman monsters and refuse to talk to us, and indeed support the violent protestors who wish to silence us, what else can I say?

  • Riku

    Just out of curiousity, do you have any sources to back the 90% claim up? Where can I find them?
    And perhaps also all the other things you accuse the men’s rights movement of. But the above would suffice for now :)
    I’m always open for rational arguments, willing to listen/read if you back up your claims accordingly. In the same way I’m up for the MRM’s arguments if, and only if, they are backed up by valid sources.

  • http://www.StudioBrule.com Steve Brulé

    Spoken like a true feminist.
    I’ll take Men’s Rights for the win … Equality will never go out of fashion!

  • Mark Neil

    From someone calling MRA’s terrorists for wanting to discuss the issues they face, your post sounds a lot like projection to me.

    “I will be armed against human trash like you.”

    Yeah, and WE are the terrorists.

  • Grey Knight

    The irony of that along with the ad hominems speaks volumes, doesn’t it?

  • CWilson

    Not woman-hating just feminist hating, harharhar. They define as “feminist” anything a woman says or does that they don’t like.

  • Reason

    Stuff a sock in it, Potsie.

  • blablabla

    Good to know that we have people here who can read minds. Please, do tell us what we believe, because you are SO right.

  • blablabla

    No, our beef with feminism is because there are FAR too many feminists in power who hate men and who have made policies that are clearly misandrist. Ever heard of the Duluth model in which men are presumed to be the perpetrators of violence in domestic situations simply because they are bigger and stronger in general? This is policy in many states in the United States and do you want to know who it was that set that up? That’s right, it was feminists. The very people you so claim are for equal rights. Feminists are man haters, through and through. And we have policy created by feminists to back up our assertion. What do you have? Lies fed to you by feminists and you just, sadly, lap it right up. You believe them without even double checking. Nice job on being so gullible.

  • blablabla

    That is a LIE and you know it. That statistic had a BUNCH of other things conflated in there, as well. Such as stalking. But you’re a feminist. You’re gullible as all hell, so im not surprised that you think 1 in 3 women will be sexually assaulted or abused. Feminists lie all the time to make their side look like the good one. They only care about money and dont care that they get gullible morons like you to buy into their rhetoric if it means more government funding.

  • blablabla

    Jill is an idiot, through and through. Claims that men are the ones in power, but doesn’t see how if men, the people in power, didnt care about women’s issues that it would mean no progress for them. Please, just sit down and shut up Jill. You have nothing constructive to offer.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    Jill – Let me guess you are a upper class white chick? May I suggest
    you go live in a third world country to find out a thing about life, BTW
    no submitting your report untill you turn 50. No wonder so many of my
    white mates go Asain, gezzzz!

    Or go MGTOW

    Jill, how about I buy you a one way ticket to North Korea honey, a place much more suited to your mindset dear. The west has no need for you.

  • blablabla

    Dean, thank you for being so cordial with people who so vehemently disagree with you. I for one find it extremely difficult to not insult someone when they’re being pig headed, but i am very happy that you can keep a level head. I will try to take a page out of your book.

  • blablabla

    We are specifically speaking about people who violently protested at the U of T against a conference on men’s and boys’ issues, and then again against professor Fiamengo illegally pulling a fire alarm to silence the opposition. And then a third time at University of Ottawa. We have NO such examples of MHRAs doing the same thing in discussions of women’s issues. So, we have people who are clearly feminist illegally disrupting discussions of men’s issues and we have video evidence of them doing so, and you have, what, feminist rhetoric and lies?

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    Women like you are so unfuckable, its the reason why feminists make boat loads
    of cash off low vibrating trash like yourself. That’s a totally
    rational statement my friend.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    I just do it for fun

    You could make some friends or get some hobbies you big loser.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    I hope Jill does not Breed, poor kids, I would call CPS if she was living next door to me.

  • blablabla

    There is no way to verify what you are (MRA or feminist). But if you are an MRA trying to make feminists look violent, please stop. We don’t need it. Their rhetoric of calling us anti-female and us proving them wrong is more than enough. If you’re a feminist, then shame on you for supposedly being for equality but not letting half of the population in on it.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    Yep and the male pill is being trialed as we type. Boy is this going to piss off many of these lying bitches.

    “Oh yes I took my pill”

    “Sure your the father”

    “I am sterile I can’t have children”

    etc etc

  • blablabla

    I agree with everything here, but one part. These feminist are not radical. They’re normal feminists. And that’s the truly sad part. If they were radical, they would be fringe and would be few and far from in between. But they’re, sadly, not.

  • blablabla

    Im sorry, but if the draft is reinstated, where will the government go to select people to send to war? Oh, the selective service? Where only men have to sign up? So that means only men will be drafted? Im shocked at how ignorant people are. Rather, i should say im shocked at how ignorant YOU are. You’re not living in the real world.

  • blablabla

    No credible MRA blames feminists for conscription. Also, so what if men are the ones doing the bad deed to other men (if this were even true because both men and women are part and parcel of the way society is now)? Are you implying that we shouldn’t care about it because of that? Because that’s awfully sexist. Just as it would be racist to suggest that we shouldn’t do anything about the deaths of black youth because, by and large, it is other black youth killing them.

  • blablabla

    So, because “men” run the government, it means we shouldn’t fight against the injustices? If women ran the government and there were such injustices against women, wouldn’t you think it sexist if we dismissed your concerns by saying “You mean the government that women run? Gotcha.” In the same way, your comment is very sexist. Thank you for your sexism.

  • blablabla

    This argument is akin to telling women to “keep their legs closed.” Do you really still want to keep going that sexist route?

  • blablabla

    He was a narcissist. Narcissists are typically whiny as all hell when they dont get what they think is owed to them. I agree it would have been FAR better if he took his own life before taking anyone else’s.

  • blablabla

    Hey, man, calm the fuck down. There is no reason to insult a person who is willing to listen. She clearly stated that she doesn’t know how it is to be in our position. Don’t be a dick to her, be a dick to the trolls on here. The only thing she has done is point out that maybe she has some misconceptions about men. It’s not like the rest of us dont have any misconceptions, right? There is no need for that kind of language to a person who is willing to admit when they’re wrong when shown evidence.

  • blablabla

    Don’t go full retard, like CWilson has done here, folks. Never go full retard.

  • l jess

    the more I read stupid posts the more I realize that MGTOW is correct – the system is so screwed up it will never be fixed – perhaps Islam will fix it when they finish assimilating everyone else

  • Doug Hart

    Men are paid more because when we show up for work on Monday morning we actually work instead of trolling websites on company time.

  • Doug Hart

    I am so glad you are trolling this thread…… Since I heard the news that Stephen Hawking, a wheelchair bound quadriplegic who communicates by tapping a keyboard with a stick duct taped to his forehead cheated on his wife, I have been thoroughly confused about what the hell could make this guy so bound and determined to carry on an affair in the face of such astronomical hardships. Now I know. He was married to you!

  • TefExpat

    Is this first feminist vs anti-feminist direct physically confrontational showdown? Best if every media outlet is there because the feminists are going to look WAY MORE foolish than the current general view of them.

  • Doug Hart

    The best prevention is the prospect of sex with you!

  • Doug Hart

    Some of us get vasectomies. I’ll post that even though I know I am just loading Jill’s humorless gun.

  • Guest

    WOW, that is the funniest comment I have ever seen….. Logic and rational thinking…to oppress women. I’m going to make a T-shirt of that statement because it is so Effing funny. Does that mean that logic and rational thinking are mysogynist?? Please answer… dying to hear your answer

  • Doug Hart

    So Jill I think you have worn your welcome here, yet you troll on like the energizer bunny.

  • Doug Hart

    I dunno is Adele Mercier a euphemism for fat shrewish skank?

  • Doug Hart

    Yeah and we know in real life no woman has even beat her kids. Pass me the wire hangers please.

  • Doug Hart

    No shit Mark one of the timeless classics of this whole nasty thread.

  • bingbingwa

    like Secret antiperspirant?

  • Doug Hart

    Talk about your oxymoron. Emphasis on moron. Because you guys are so violent I am going to take up arms against you.

  • Doug Hart

    I may not be the quickest on the uptake there Kristal, but that is EXACTLY what she just said. And we are violent and unhinged??????

  • bingbingwa

    If there is truly a hate group when it comes to rights, it is feminism.

  • bingbingwa

    It’s women like you that spawned the MGTOW movement. Have fun growing up being a spinster. Marriage is dead, and feminism killed it.

  • bingbingwa

    Now, now…. that’s labelling…. You wouldn’t want me to call you “Bossy” and squelch your progression to a position of power do you? #BanBossy #CulturalMarxism

  • crydiego

    I’m not anti-woman! I’m not even sure what that term could mean. You think that I hate women?
    I do hate modern feminism but even that is not made up of all women. I am an MRA and believe that men and women are equal under the law. I am pro Equal Rights Amendment and I am pro woman, but not above or beneath men.
    That is why modern feminist try to shut us up and they usually use shaming, but hey, that’s what bigots do; they don’t have much else.

  • Doug Hart

    You want fantasy? I have two words for you Harlequin Romance novels. Actually that’s three but you get my drift there snow white.

  • Doug Hart

    You want equality for your gender. You just want a little more equality than you are willing to give.

  • Incubus

    I don’t think you’ve been following along if you’re under the impression that anyone here was defending him…

  • Incubus

    9 out of 10 civilized people agree telling others what they believe isn’t the most productive way to have a conversation.

    Perhaps if you were more interested in giving others a chance to tell you what they believed, you would be less full of hate. But then, you wouldn’t be on the side that’s threatening to kill innocent bystanders, would you?

  • Doug Hart

    To all the feminists here wanting to railroad men off the human highway. You can’t tell me you don’t have fathers, brothers and sons that you love. And you can’t tell me that if you do, you want them treated as shabbily and with the same blanket disdain and contempt you so obviously have for the men here. And if you do, your lack of compassion towards your own family members puts you firmly in the psychopath camp. Which explains a lot. And please don’t counter this question with the statement that we advocate violence towards women and then sling a bunch of pejoratives until one sticks. I have yet to see any man here threaten a woman in any way. Please give me a better answer than I am rubber, you are glue, what you say bounces off me, and sticks to you. If you can’t make your argument more intelligently than that, there are valid reasons why society marginalizes you.

  • Incubus

    Screenshots have been taken of the organizers of that FB page openly stating that they are not interested in discussion, and will ban any MRA who attempts to discuss things civilly. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

  • Incubus

    1. Keyword: “at this time”
    2. You obviously stopped reading once you saw the word “vagina,” so there’s no point in continuing this.

  • Incubus

    I’m not quite sure how it’s possible to write something like this and still come away thinking the other person is the bigot. Please enlighten me.

  • Steve

    I work with a suicide prevention group, AFSP. We have all been touched by suicide.
    I am saying these people who cannot tie their shoes, or get a job, or do anything and then get handed 3 or 4 doses a day of high velocity drugs are not being “cured”-and in fact are drug addicts.
    So at least legalize all drugs, it will bring down the cost of Xanex, etc.

    The people scripting this many meds to anyone has blood on their hands, there is no possible way to “fix” someone’s issues with doses of dope all day…and again, if they use heroin, you put them in jail, give them felony records, take all their worldly belongings in the name of the war on drugs. BUT..if they have a script for the meds, which are opiates in pill form, you cannot wait to hand it to them.

    The way to stop these people is stop making them, allowing them be drug addicts. If you are so depressed you need 6 or 8 pills a day, you neednto be locked up. Lock them up until they can get through their day without the dope, that is what you would do with heroin.

    Lastly, you can be angry if you want, but your anger is misdirected. Be angry at the cowards, be angry that docs script this stuff, but angry at people who aren’t high, on scripts, etc is the wrong direction.

  • Incubus

    I don’t think anyone here said it did…

  • sarahgray

    Men have plenty of reproductive rights. Unless they are raped, they have to total control over where they leave their sperm.

  • Incubus

    Your statement shows you haven’t looked into this movement’s literature about male rape, and you have a very one-sided view anyway. Feminist campaigns against slut shaming are based on the notion that supposedly, men can have sex without consequences so women should be able to do the same. It’s very convenient that once you have the law not only giving you full say over whether you have a child, but also forcing another human being to change the next 18 years of his life according to whatever you decide, all of a sudden, all of a sudden, any concern for fairness about who can have sex without consequences is thrown out the window. It’s also very convenient that you see nothing wrong with telling a man that you should have exclusive say over whether to abort the child you made together, while in the same breath, saying he should be obligated to stand by you and support that child because it takes two people to make a baby.

    Your response is one of a bigot, and you should feel ashamed of yourself.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    I disagree, she is dishonest and disingenuous to say the least.

  • sarahgray

    Men have full say over when they contribute to the conception of a pregnancy, unless they are raped. It’s the same for women.

    A man does not need permission to have a prostate exam, and a woman does not need permission to have a medical procedure that is safer than childbirth.
    There is no right to sex without consequences.

    I do believe, however, that men can be, and are, raped.

    I think it is wrong to make a rape victim to pay child support, just as it is wrong that a rape victim could be forced to coparent with their rapist.

    I think all convicted rapists should lose rights to children conceived in the commission of their crime.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    You selling turkey basters on eBay by any chance?

    Don’t forget the TOBACCO SAUCE IN THE CONDOMS BOYS as the great Tom Leykis would say.

    Try again you ignorant turd.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    Women have plenty of reproductive rights. Unless they are raped, they have total control over where and when they spread their legs.

    Ha just had a look at your FB page, like your cover photo shame you don’t practice it. Oh you look like a typical feminist also – fat!

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    The media will be there, plus Detroit Police – on our dollar – our camera crew, media local and International. FBI and homeland security have been informed, as have many embassies and consulates, we will be assisting law enforcement to the best of our abilities.

    The idea of installing many IP based hidden cameras has been touted, there is no shortage of Tech people like myself in the MHRA that can do this.

  • crydiego

    I am not anti-woman. Some of the best people in my life are women. I believe women should be my equal, at least, under the law. Some are smarter than me and some are stronger, but equal under the law is worth being called names for. So call me names, but please try to be a little more origanal than, loser. We are all losers at one time or another in our lives, even you.

  • crydiego

    Misogynist is a woman hater. These men and women of the MRM dislike modern feminist.
    You see, not all feminist are women and not all women are feminist.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    The idea that a man’s value is measured by his desirability to women.

    Yes it is very important we change the culture so men and boys know that a females opinion of them is worthless and irrelevant. Women can go bitch to their friends.

  • crydiego

    Jill is a great example of a feminist! Jill could be a man or woman but the stupid namecalling is pure feminist.
    Being a woman and being a feminist are not the same thing Jill. You do not speak for half the world! You are just one little voice of hate.

  • Doug Hart

    I am not sure that feminism rises to the ranks of a discipline that warrants study.

  • Incubus

    The MRM doesn’t support parenting rights for rapists, so I don’t know why you’re even bringing that issue up.

    The remainder of what you wrote pretty much establishes my point about you being a bigot. In general, people who are civilized tend to understand that something stops being a matter of personal liberty, and enters the territory of a moral crime when it starts to affect other people. I could just as easily argue that if a man can do whatever he wants with his body, then being required to provide for a child he’s conceived is a violation of his personal freedom. You seem to be completely unaware that the obligation to provide for one’s children is, itself, an arbitrary point you’ve chosen at which we abandon personal liberty out of concern for others who are affected – which is something for which you’ve conveniently rationalized the hell out of the situation in order to come up with a scenario in which you have no such obligation while the person you’re having sex with does.

    You also don’t seem to be aware that you just argued the Pro-Life side despite obviously being Pro-Choice. But since most MRAs are Pro-Choice, that’s a moot point.

    I think it’s clear we aren’t going to see eye to eye here. There may be some feminists I would be interested in discussing things with to try to find some common ground. The sort of unending one-sidedness that you exhibit is the kind of bigotry we’re going to Detroit to fight. I make no apologies for it, and I stand by it completely. You’re the kind of person we’re trying to take down.

  • sarahgray

    I thought we were talking about the consequences of a child being conceived in rape.

    I’m not sure what you are trying to advocate for here. Men having no rights to their children because paying a small percentage of the cost of raising a child born from an “unintentional” pregnancy is too severe?

    I have not argued the anti-choice side. I have argued the “people have to be responsible even with modern medical scientific advancements” argument.

    A man can do whatever he wants with his body, until it encroaches on another person’s bodily autonomy. Women are people, too, you know.

    Women have the same obligations to their children that men do post birth,

  • Doug Hart

    You can lead a feminist to water but you can’t make them think.

  • Doug Hart

    You sought us out not the other way around!

  • Doug Hart

    Speaking of first amendment rights, I see you exercising them freely at a place you claim to loathe.

  • Doug Hart

    I’ve found that 100% of feminist statistics are total fabrications 100% of the time.

  • Doug Hart

    No they need to eliminate even the appearance of impropriety.

  • Doug Hart

    That’s three!

  • Doug Hart

    We obviously don’t have the right to band together in fellowship without a bunch of setting hens clucking about like old barren chickens, ruining things for both camps.

  • Doug Hart

    Yes military service is now strictly voluntary. A bit too late for the 6 million men who have fought and died in combat up to now.

  • Doug Hart

    Would you find me more fuckable if you knew I was a rich professional boxer?
    Do you know much about professional boxing?
    I am the heavy weight champion of the world.

  • Doug Hart

    Ya think?

  • Doug Hart

    It’s not a bubble. It’s the chow line at her dorm.

  • Doug Hart

    That the government doesn’t choose to prosecute doesn’t mean it isn’t against the law.

  • Doug Hart

    Says Jill as she pulls into the gas station for the lowest fuel costs in the world.

  • Doug Hart

    It makes your income get you through from year to year with the cheap energy costs that the lives of dead soldiers affords you.

  • Doug Hart

    Jill is a two legged miasma.

  • Incubus

    I don’t know where you got the impression that we were talking about a child being conceived of rape, because you’re the only one here who mentioned rape, and it was a brief “except in this instance” remark.

    What I’m arguing is that men do not have reproductive rights when a woman is the one who has exclusive say over whether to abort, and men have no option to opt out of becoming a parent. We have to change our own lives according to her whims.

    The fact that you say “people have to be responsible even with modern medical scientific advancements” is exactly why I’m saying you’re arguing the Pro-Life side. Do only men have responsibilities, according to your argument? After all, if we can’t be sure that a fetus isn’t really alive, wouldn’t the responsible thing to do be to allow it to continue growing, rather than risk terminating a life, in the same way that if someone fires a gun into a room without knowing if anyone is inside, they still get charged with reckless endangerment? Furthermore, since you’re right now saying that bodily autonomy stops once another person is involved, isn’t that in itself an argument for the Pro-Life side, and indeed one which they use regularly?

    Your answer to both this as well as the question of whether women should be allowed to have exclusive say over abortion with no similar opting-out method for men seems to be “No, because it’s an issue of bodily autonomy.” And to that I say, again, I don’t think you’re considering how much of your argument is socially constructed. In our society, we tend to be extremely protective of women, as you can see from the way we react any time there’s the slightest possibility of harm to a woman being done. Let’s imagine that there exists a parallel universe in which the opposite is true, and we’re overly protective of men and dismissive of women’s views. In such a society, the view might be that the sperm is part of a man’s body, and therefore, abortion might be viewed as an infringement on his right to bodily autonomy, so that once a woman became pregnant, she was legally forced to change the rest of her life by becoming a parent. Over time, the women in this society might rebel from their oppression, and the society might grow to realize that this is ultimately an issue which affects both people involved, and that both of them ultimately made a decision to do something which fundamentally has the power to fundamentally change both of their lives forever – and as such, it’s a matter that both parties should have a say over, or at the very least, which both parties should have an equal right to opt out of.

    Now, you might feel that taking the discussion to this extreme, of speaking of social constructs is taking things too far to be of any relevance. But the fact is those constructs result in an extremely unbalanced situation between men and women, and they exist because of preconceived notions within our society that pay an extreme amount of attention to women’s needs while ignoring those of men. And since we are speaking of social constructs, and given that you and I both agree that bodily autonomy stops once another person’s becomes affected, why is it that we that in this scenario, we set the line at the right to choose whether to carry a child? Why not acknowledge the suffering the man will feel if he’s forced to become a father before he’s ready, or, for that matter, if he wants to become a father but the woman chooses to abort? Again, being this rigid about setting the bar at bodily autonomy is an arbitrary social construct.

    And to be clear, women DO NOT have the same obligations as men. Not only can women abort without a man’s say, they can also choose not to put his name on the birth certificate and then give up their child for adoption, or they can leave it at a safe haven facility, even if he’s a capable father and wants the child. Men are not even close to being the equals of women in regards to parenting rights.

  • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

    That’s exactly what it was.

  • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

    See Detroit? This misogynist crap is coming to your city. Paul Elam made up a story about feminist threats to cover the 25K cost for security and all the little MRA minions fell for it. The comments on here are mostly from A Voice for Men. This is the kind of tripe that will be in your city.

  • Incubus

    Yes, he made up the story and that’s why he has the full letter from the Hilton Hotel as well as screenshots of feminists on Facebook saying they were going to do this right before it happened.

    At least look into the matter a little bit before you start spreading slander, so you don’t look so stupid.

  • Cordovan Splotch

    That’s an awful lot of unsubstantiated claims… you have fun with those.

  • Dennis Markham

    Uhhhh, I think you clicked the wrong reply button.

  • Dennis Markham

    Wow a deep, brilliant, thoughtful, well-researched analysis.

  • Mark Wharton

    Your name suits you well.

  • Grey Knight

    About that statement regarding rape, being forced into fatherhood can be through subterfuge e.g.”I’m on the pill/diaphragm etc. (but I’m really not).”

    Give me examples of men’s reproductive rights, sir/ma’am. I love examples. I’ll start:

    ♦ Contraceptives

    Meanwhile, I’ll list women’s reproductive rights from off the top of my head:

    ♦ Contraceptives
    ♦ Abortion
    ♦ Giving the shild away through adoption
    ♦ The right to abandon the child
    ♦ State-Funded support specifically for mothers and their children

    There may be more but I can’t do proper research at the moment.

  • sarahgray

    Adoption requires both parents. State money is for parents, not women.
    As soon as a man has a functional uterus, he will have the right to an abortion, too. You don’t see me complaining about being unable to get a prostate exam.

    What prevents a man from using his own birth control, especially if there is a concern that a woman will lie?

  • Bewildered

    She’s a clairvoyant ! Women’s way of knowing FTW!

  • Mark Neil

    I’m not sure if you’re trying to agree with me in a manner I think is misrepresenting what I said (I never said women’s opinions of them are worthless and irrelevant, just that it should not be what men hang their value on), or if you’re trying to dismiss me with histrionic sarcasm.

  • Bewildered

    Where’s your trailer parked ?

  • Bewildered

    You think logic will help here ?

  • Bewildered

    You need a certain level of intelligence to comprehend what you have just said.

  • Bewildered

    The only shit spotted is the one that’s coming out of your mouth via your keypad.

  • Bewildered

    It’s OK ! She forgot to take her meds today. Once she calms down she’s going to shower us with kisses.

  • Bewildered

    Indeed ! Moreover it indicates his predilection for projection.
    How revealing!

  • Bewildered

    Damaged beyond repair ?

  • Bewildered

    It’s very easy to be a paper tiger on the internet.

  • Bewildered

    Relax! Barking dogs seldom bite. Sane people are seldom hysterical.
    That should tell you something about [him=her]/her.

  • crydiego

    Basicly the Men’s rights movement is just support for the Egual Rights Amendment, (ERA). Feminism is against it.

  • Bewildered

    Feminists are supposedly!

  • Bewildered

    We have had enough of female parties so now it’s time for a change.
    You don’t want to be sticks-in-the mud do you?

  • Bewildered

    Please don’t see irate kittens as full grown cheetahs.More so because you are a down to earth MRA.I know feminist hysteria is toxic and contagious if you let your guard down.

  • Bewildered

    Being a “fan of women” does not necessarily make you a good person.
    This doesn’t apply in the case of manginas/simps/conscious men.

  • Bewildered

    If you are so fond of libel at least do it well and face the consequences. It’s condescending of you to expect some neutral person to blindly accept what you have posted here.
    It’s impossible to fool all the people all the time.
    The world is not your echo chamber.

  • Bewildered

    They are probably blaming women like you. Can’t honestly say that they are wrong. The hate that you spew is astounding.

  • Bewildered

    ..a slanted piece

    When the ‘great’ cause and as a corollary self-righteousness reigns supreme being slanted or straight is one and the same.

  • Bewildered

    hehehehe ! madam you misfired !

  • Mark Neil

    That sounds more like what a feminist defines harassment, abuse or “misogyny” as.

    If anyone criticises even a single woman, they are apparently misogynist… ESPECIALLY if that woman is a feminist (then it’s also harassment and abuse… even terrorism.

  • Mark Neil

    The doubletree would then have grounds for a lawsuit, at which point AVFM would be required to provide evidence of the letter. Your post sounds more like an attempt at damage control.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    Everyone who’s ever been involved in a real human rights struggle knows you will be faced with hatred, irrationality, and violent reprisals for challenging the establishment. The most effective way of responding to people who lie about you is to quietly tell the truth and hope they — or at least others with open minds — will listen.

    It may be foolish of me, but I believe these folks are genuinely misguided and not just hateful and irrational bigots. I think there are probably decent human beings inside them. I may be wrong, but I hope I’m not.

  • Mark Neil

    Joy, AKA Sael Palanie is a rabid feminist, She has a youtube channel under SaelPalani if you’re interested in checking out her crazy

  • Reason

    I think trolls like Jill Drnek are just trying to amp up the rhetoric in order to manufacture out-of-context, hateful-sounding quotes for later reference.

  • Bewildered

    A bigot without a valid argument and that makes it doubly bad.

  • Mark Neil

    “Is this first feminist vs anti-feminist direct physically confrontational showdown?”

    No. Feminists have barricaded doors (until police were called in to remove them) at a Warren Farrell lecture (ironically, Warren Farrell was a board member for now 3 times running, and, until that event at least, identified as a feminist himself. But because he dared speak to men’s issues, in a manner that did not identify men as the sole problem, or identify men’s issues by what they could do for women (IE, men’s issues are to recognize how they are violent towards women), he was excommunicated and branded a rape apologist and incest supporter). Then there was Chanty Binx (AKA Big Red. search youtube for it) singing “Cry me a river” when men tried to speak of the gender gap in male suicide, while people waited for the OK after a fire alarm was pulled on another men’s rights lecture.

    All in all, I don’t know if this will become another physical altercation, given the police and security presence, but I suspect the feminists will try to make it so, then play the victims… like they usually do.

  • Bewildered

    With a nick like yours senseless adhoms are epected.
    Besides why is anti-men OK and anti-women not OK ?

  • “T”

    *petitions for the Men’s Rights Movement to be classified as a terrorist movement; makes threats of violence against a Men’s Rights Conference*

    Hypocrisy much? I’m sorry the thought of discussing issues that affect the male race doesn’t sit well with some people. Those protesters are just as bad as Eliot Rodgers and should be ashamed of themselves.

  • Bewildered

    He doesn’t need to because they are not paranoid psychos.
    Now let us see you do justice to your name and let adults handle discussion. :giggle:

  • Marcus Anderson-Smythe

    I love the fact that you say that he made up the story and the “little MRA are falling for it”…When he has a letter proving that the Hilton Hotel stating they require security due to the safety of others at risk.

    And what do you have…? No, really, what do you have to suggest that this is a lie? Heresay? One of your feminist buddies told you?

    This shows that you are the gullible one here, not the “little MRA minions”, and the simple fact that security has been needed against violent, law breaking, and human rights violating feminists beforehand, on “camera”, gives it more backing.

    You like to think that you are this morally high, intellectually superior group, but sorry to say, well, not sorry to say at all, you are a movement filled with scummy people with very little intellect.

  • Marcus Anderson-Smythe

    “The men and women of Detroit work too hard to allow a bunch of misogynists in this city”.
    Who the fuck are you to decide what people in Detroit want to see? “WE ARE SO MORALLY ABOVE THESE MISOGYNISTS THAT WE WANT TO DECIDE WHAT IS PRESENTED TO THEM AND WHAT ISN’T”. You are ridiculous.
    The people of Detroit are not being forced to show up, they are being given the option on different perspectives on issues, you know, like rational people would take up the offer for (I understand you’re a complete imbecile and don’t understand that collecting information from different perspectives makes you more likely to find an accurate conclusion).

    “The people work so hard in Detroit, so much so that I want to choose what they are allowed to view, I want this perspective to not be offered to them that they can choose to go to or not”.

    Are you really tha retarded? I try to keep the insulting down to a low when facing idiots like yourself, but are you really that mentally deficient? You think rewarding hard workers is taking away their “CHOICE” to see something “YOU” disagree with?

    Oh, but you feminists are so moral, so intelligent…Your comment shows how moral and intelligent you are, and trust me, it’s not impressive.

  • Marcus Anderson-Smythe

    You do realize that sharing such information can effect their business, right? As in, lose customers, etc? I have not phoned, however until they make a lawsuit against the proof given so far, there are plenty of reasons why they would not share such information.

  • Marcus Anderson-Smythe

    Who said it is the fault of women? Your assumption on it being the case does not mean that is the case they are bringing forward.

    Yes, they complain about feminists, because when the MRM try to take action, they are met with feminists willing to break the law, violate human rights, threaten, and all ’round willing to commit domestic terrorism, which can be shown in this case and the case of the Will Farrel speech in the university of Toronto. What, are you one of these people that think you can hold someone back from trying to achieve something, then think that person has no right to oppose the group holding them back from achieving things?

    So please, take your ignorant views and take them elsewhere, preferably away from human eyes, because if you cannot comprehend that if a group is preventing their group from doing something means the group doing the preventing is responsible for a group not being able to do anything, well, you’re just an idiot.

  • Marcus Anderson-Smythe

    Yes! It was them! They tried helping a woman that was attacked even when that woman was protesting against them, but they are still a misogynistic hate group! They are a hate group because they hate violence and try to help people from it, but hating violent people makes them a hate group of violent people, so ergo they are still a hate group!!!!

    …Sarcasm, but in all honesty, coming from a feminists mouth, I wouldn’t see it as sarcasm. >_>

  • Marcus Anderson-Smythe

    I know, right? Because everyone else must know the intent of someone elses words rather than the person that stated those words, right?

    It’s the exact same case with the Robin Thick song Blurred Lines, they much prefer to see their “perspective” of something as being factual rather than the content maker’s actual intent the factual reason.

    I do so love when feminists thinks they can dictate the intent of someone elses words.You’re so rational. -sigh-

  • DestroyErase

    Ur off ur rocker mate.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    Misinterpret perhaps.

    I still don’t see a big difference between

    a) women’s opinions of them are worthless and irrelevant

    b) The idea that a man’s value is measured by his desirability to women.

    in the context of this article.

    Obviously the points a) and b) require some clarification, if some women is shaming me for choosing to stay childless and single (MGTOW) well I don’t hold her opinion as worthy. If some women shames (bullies) me for being an MHRA her opinion is worthless and irrelevant.

    If she calls me out on driving down the freeway in the rain and fog at a speed that is not safe fair enough then.

    Still I assumed your post was talking about mens rights (the topic of this thread) – not my driving on the freeway – the women that speak out, protest (aka anti-male) against it, those women are a non-event, a waste of atomic matter in my book, toxic actually.

    I will be at Detroit and I expect to see many women protesting our event, their opinions are worthless and irrelevant to me and the idea that a man’s value is measured by his desirability to women is also.

    We must teach out young men this, to value themselves, not as just just another brick in the wall of male disposability.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    Oh no, Joy the useless parasite is back!

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

    Really? A copy is available on the AVfM website.

    FBI and homeland security have been informed, as have many embassies and
    consulates, we will be assisting law enforcement to the best of our
    abilities.

  • sarahgray

    There is no evidence that threats were actually made at all, let alone that women or feminists made them.

  • sarahgray

    He took the letter down. And no one reported any threats to the police, that should tell you something.
    There are no screenshots of feminists protesting the conference planning to make threats or commit violent acts of any kind. Now, the comments in AVfM, on the other hand…

  • Jill Kill’s Babbies

    We use our tax dollars to teach kids this garbage. Jill is all of our fault. If we continue to teach hate at our public universities we will get more and more Jills.

  • Jill Kill’s Babbies

    female pornstar pay rate > male pornstar pay rate. Check your privilege

  • Incubus

    He took the letter down because the Hilton requested it. Its not being reported tells me that they don’t want negative publicity about this, and that pressure should be put on them to issue a formal announcement about whether they received death threats. The screenshots do exist, and are on JB’s blog, which I posted a link to before but a moderator wouldn’t approve it.

    I haven’t seen anything advocating violence in the AVFM comments.

  • Jill Kill’s Babbies

    Can you discuss womens’ rights without blaming men for your problems? How many feminist conferences have you been where you had to avoid violent protesters to gain entry? Want to know who the real hate group is? MRA’s denounce Eliot Roger while your community praise Aileen Wuornos.

  • sarahgray

    If they wanted to not have publicity, a letter detailing the threats would not have been sent.
    The screenshots on that blog are neither threats of violence or made by organizers.
    Meanwhile, someone on AVfM is advocating attacking women with hornet spray.

  • Incubus

    Okay, since there’s so much slander against this movement, the first thing I need to address is that, before anything else.

    The comment you’re referring to said nothing about attacking women. It was about protesters who might attack us, while we’re there, and it said only that self defence is a human right if we’re attacked. But even THAT comment was promptly deleted, and a moderator quickly posted the message that comments of that nature would not be tolerated because even if we are attacked while we’re there, there are other ways to get away than by fighting back. Paul Elam later posted a reply saying that he was proud of this moderator for posting that, and that’s exactly the message. He has stated numerous times that we fully expect to be physically attacked while we’re there, and if we don’t think we can find a way out of it without fighting back, we should not attend the conference. He also reiterated this message on his weekly Intelligence Report Google Hangout with Dr. Tara Palmatier and Dean Esmay.

    I’m not associated with AVFM except that I support them and I plan to attend the conference, and I also donated money to their latest fundraiser once the news came out about the threats. I want to be clear that I’m not speaking for them in any way here, only posting my own understanding of what happened with the letter. As I understand it, from what individuals who ARE associated with the site have stated, couriers from the Hilton where the conference will be held personally delivered copies of the letter to various members of AVFM who lived in that city, which is how they knew the letter was legitimately from them. My understanding is that the Hilton did not intend for the letter to be released publicly, but they also did not make that clear, so AVFM published it publicly for full transparency. When the Hilton saw this, they exercised a clause in their contract which allowed them to insist it be taken down.

    It has also been independently verified by news sources that the Hilton did call the Detroit Police to inquire about whether they offered any services which would allow a third party to secure the hotel, but they did not report any death threats. This, again, makes it look like the Hilton is trying to avoid negative publicity, rather than that Paul Elam is lying or ripping people off. As someone who is now spending approximately $,2,000 to attend this – not to oppress women, but because I’m concerned for the issues that men and boys face – I would be most interested and most upset in knowing if Paul Elam was spreading lies in order to secure donations from us. As someone who has a vested interest in knowing whether this is the case, I do not believe it is. Furthermore, as I have posted on other blogs, my opinion is that the Hilton is doing its best to deter us from having this conference, now that the death threats have been received, without breaking the contract, since that would, in my own personal conjecture, allow AVFM to sue them.

  • Sue

    ‘Elliot was a product of people like you’
    You are literally saying not sleeping with someone makes them a murderer. Men do not have the RIGHT to sleep with women.

  • Teflon Expat

    Another hotel has agreed to host the conference as a backup. Its critical to know what hotel that is or they will get to assemble if DoubleTree cancels them.

  • AreYouKidding

    This is hilarious. “We aren’t a hate group! We have ISSUES! Pay attention to our ISSUES, stop being mad at us!”

    Except all I see in this comment thread is a bunch of bitching about feminists, “the sisterhood”, and women in general, and nothing about the actual issues the group supposedly brings to the table.

    Which, if you have visited -literally- any MRA forums or chatrooms, you’d also find. Just a bunch of being pissed off at women for… being women, I guess. For not making themselves available to “involuntary incels” (involuntarily incelibate people) for sex, but also for having sex with other people because that’s slutty. For being concerned with their own issues– it’s annoying when women talk about their (very real) issues, but not when men aren’t getting the treatment they feel entitled to from women and I guess society in general.

    Feminism is annoying, and hilarious, and oppressive, and feminists are all bitches, right?

    Think about that. People who by definition want EQUAL RIGHTS for BOTH MEN AND WOMEN are considered oppressive.

    How would you have it, MRA folks? Shall we time travel back to the 50s and before? Are those the glory days you feel you’ll be getting back from the “shambles” you see yourselves in now?

    As a side note– Ellioit Rodger may have killed more men than women in his psychotic murder spree, but you can’t really overlook the WOMEN-HATING MANIFESTO he left behind just before doing it. Furthermore, this protest began BEFORE the shooting took place. We don’t want hate groups shitting all over our city.

  • Incubus

    Forgot to address your false claim about the screenshots. There is, in fact, one screenshot from a poster who warns that he may become “trigger happy” while protesting us. Other screenshots allude to the closed-minded nature of the group, with clear statements that they consider all MRAs to be misogynists, and will not discuss these issues with us, and that any of us who try to will be immediately banned. Another screenshot shows a woman on that page asking actors to help her with something secret, which she says “can be done from anywhere” and was taken shortly before the Hilton allegedly begun receiving threats. This may not be proof that this group did this, but it is consistent with the past behavior of feminist protesters, such as those at the U of T.

  • Incubus

    If that’s your take, then you either have poor reading comprehension skills, or you’re a bigot. The issues we have have been made clear by both male and female MRAs who have posted here.

    Since the false claim about the woman-hating manifesto was debunked in the very first comment which was posted here, which was from me and is the first comment anyone sees on this article, I’m going to go with poor reading comprehension skills. That’s being generous.

    Many of the people who are attending are from Detroit. Since Detroit is part of the U.S, freedom of speech applies, and you have no grounds for asserting that we’re not wanted there simply because you live there. Even if that weren’t the case, the fact that you’re this ignorant disqualifies you from deciding whether we’re wanted there. Thinking beings will make that decision for ourselves, thank you.

  • gary959

    What if we decide to meet in the park – you can’t stop us – or the truth!

  • G&PT

    Those criticising the event and linking it to Elliot Rodger need to take a look at themselves and think are they any different to people criticising an Islamic event in New York or Boston, given what people of that faith did in those two cities? Anyone doing the latter would rightly come under attack as Islamophobic, and I’m sure some of the most vocal attacks would be from the same people who are critisising this event. Also, are they any better than men who judge all feminists by the standards of the extreme, man hating few?

  • G&PT

    Who is to say men can’t be physically overpowered? There are plenty of big strong women out there, and plenty of smaller, weaker (including through illness or disability) men. Multiple women and it becomes even easier. Drugs and Alcohol can also play a part (and remember, a drunk victim holds no responsibility for their victim hood). Men can be raped by other men. The only reason men can’t be raped by women is because the definition of rape is such that it only allows male on female rape (meaning female on female rape also doesn’t exist). Females can rape by forcing men to penetrate, causing a man to penetrate without consent (an erection is an autonomous response and in no way implies consent), or by penetration with an object through violence or without consent (which is also a female on female issue).

  • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

    The moment the news broke about Rodger, I just knew the feminist opportunists would pounce…pounce on something they will try to use as fodder to shut us up.

    However, they are connecting dots that do not exist. Now is that ridiculous or what?

    Rodger may have made some statements that indicated he had some problems with some women, but his comments were not indicative of hatred for women. Gosh, the feminists keep showing how silly, over-reactive, emotion-dominated, with skewed perspectives on reality, and plain ole mean they are. Oh yeah, and oblivious!

    Valerie Solanas has been hailed as one of the best feminists ever. How can anyone not see that supporting her manifesto to slice up men is what real hatred looks like—not men and women trying to secure human rights for men who are even now still considered disposable once their utility to women is exhausted.

    Men, wake up! Pull your heads (brains) out of your pants, or butts, or your woman’s butt, or the sand and show the world that real men, while loving women, do not trade in their smarts or lose their bearings over women—which by definition, is undermining their own sex. The boys of the future will seriously question your manhood when they learn that you did NOTHING to help stop hatred of men and boys. When they ask, What did YOU do to help stop runaway yet institutionalized hatred of men and boys, will your head be hung in shame?

    The truth is not hatred…no matter how they try to say it is. Truth is their number one enemy and feminist prove this correct when they try to keep us from speaking. if we are so wrong, let the world see it, debate it, prove it, AFTER we speak.

    And feminists as well as their obedient puppets who never bother to actually look at our movement with unbiased eyes (that means…no feelings worn on your sleeves which creates bias), wonder why we call them fascists, bullies, oblivious and haters of men and boys. One need not have to look around very long in this world to see the misandry saturating most all we know.

    One thing is for sure: the men’s movement is legitimate, serious, sound and not going to go away. No amount of feminist-minded scheming will shut us up. We will find a way!

  • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

    Honey, anytime sensible people who do not fall under the punish and control umbrella of feminists say something truthful yet inconvenient about women, it is dubbed “hatred” immediately, without any thought going into it at all. Everyone already knows that manipulation is one of women’s most powerful tactics…just that it doesn’t work on us smarter ones. That, they hate. Not being able to control us with their shallow shaming and ridicule is what bothers them most. Come on girl, keep telling on yourself.

    I would love for you to actually go back and reread all the comments and find one…ONE…that blames women. Why is it that anytime one scrutinizes women (half the world’s population…duh), it is “blaming”, or “hatred”, or “violence” or what ever their pity-minded schemes can manage to concoct…but while they must be oblivious to how they are even acting?

  • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

    Well said, Dennis. BINGO!!! You hit the nail square on the head! I do not know you personally, but you are one of my brothers. I am proud to learn more and more men are beginning to think with their brains and not their penises.

    As much as feminists want men to stop thinking with their penises, they should think twice. When men do, feminist problems will REALLY begin… so they should be veeery careful what they ask for.

    The smartest men will reek havoc on feminists lies…and that is exactly why feminists are panicking.

  • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

    Don’t you worry your privileged little self honey-princess, none of us want anything to do with oblivious people like you. …and would you mind substantiating at least some of the crap you wrote in your comment. You must have pulled that out of you butt or maybe it was outer space. It made no sense and had no support. Keep telling on yourself.

  • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

    It seems these people who claim so many bad things about the MHRA don’t actually read the stuff they care soooo much to criticize. They take the word of feminists without so much as a single ounce of scrutiny or analysis. The reason it is so hard to have rational discourse with feminists or even most of the women commenting here, is because they wear their feelings on their sleeves, thoroughly biasing them, skewing their perspectives on ACTUAL reality. They believe their feelings ARE reality! It is not easy being rational with silly people who are THAT erroneous. They will never get it: they are not capable. It is beyond them. Their feelings CONTROL them and TRY to control us…but we are too smart for that. Their tactics only work on the weak…and that, Grey Knight is why they hate us!

  • wgone

    What is it with women a falsely accusing someone ?? It must be genetic! Even as a group – they falsely accuse the MRA group.

  • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

    You just said women must hate the truth.

  • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

    Oh, but we HAVE studied it very carefully…dissected it professionally actually and they suspect we see what they do not want us to see. That is why they want to silence us!

  • Doug Hart

    Agreed! I was responding to that troll from further up and any time I let myself get trolled, I end up sounding as illogical and lacking proportion as they do.

  • Aaron Little

    You really should stop telling people what they believe and start asking them what they believe. Though, this method might have you arriving at the truth, and we can’t have that now can we.

  • blablabla

    I agree with you. Ignorance causes a LOT of problems for everybody involved. And then of course demonizing the other side doesn’t help at all as it further spreads ignorance and unwillingness to listen. It’s just hard to keep that in mind as I respond.

  • OldandNavy

    Oh no. It’s “joy”. I ssh it that way because joy doesn’t have any…joy. what a venom-soaked, bigoted individual

  • OldandNavy

    Our screen caps by honey badgers from trolls saying they are armed.

    Folks tip their hand when they gush at a woman’s feeling threatened and call a man’s same expression whining or pussiness…or fake.

    You all get to decide what side of history you are going to be on.

  • OldandNavy

    No thanks. Her posts smell like wet cats, as it is.

  • OldandNavy

    Feminism is a human rights shame. Had been for some time now. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy the push back.

    Idiotic and hateful ideologies well always be opposed in free societies. Feminism has its turn.

  • sarahgray

    You mean trolls on our page trying to start trouble? We have screen caps of MRA folks in *undeleted* comments saying the same, and worse.

  • Mark Wharton

    I’m just repeating what feminists say,

  • Bewildered

    Deflection !

  • Bewildered

    LMFAO! LMFAO!

  • Bewildered

    Your nick seems to say that you should be the one to do the needful !

  • Bewildered

    You nick seems to suggest that you are projecting !

  • Bewildered

    A twisted mind thinks that the world is twisted.

  • Bewildered

    Voted in by the women who are the majority.
    So perforce they have got to pander to their hysteria and stupid demands.

  • Doug Hart

    Glad you like it! It was down to that comment and I know you are but what am I? So I attempted to shame the shameless.

  • gwallan

    59 % – Petrovich, M. & Templer, D. I. (1984). Heterosexual molestation of children who later become rapists. Psychological Reports, 54, 810.

    66% – Groth, A. N. (1979). Sexual Trauma in the Life Histories of Rapists and Child Molesters. Victimology, 4(1), 10-16.

    80% – Briere, J., Evans, D., Runtz, M., & Wall, T. (1988). Symptomatology in men who were molested as children: A comparison study. American Journal of Orthopsychiatry, 58(3), 457-461.

    Anecdotally I’ve been informed by sexual assault counselors who work in prisons in my state that it’s about three quarters.

  • gwallan

    The US has ratified the second of the International Labour Organisation’s conventions on forced labour. Under the terms of this convention the US may conscript women but NOT for the purposes of military service.

  • Dagda Mór

    “men have NEVER cared about issues facing women.” -> “MEN created all those precious rules around paternity they now suffer under”

    wut

    Also much of the modern legal structure around the family was heavily feminist influnced, in western countries anyway, not because men of previous generations treated their families like garbage.

    For decades married men who couldn’t get work in Ireland travelled to
    England to dig ditches, build railways and make motorways. They worked
    all hours to make money to send home to the wives and children they saw
    once, at best twice, a year. They shared squalid bedsits for one with
    two or three other married men.

    Working such long hours, they could have afforded a good lifestyle if
    they hadn’t been sending most of their money home. By no stretch of
    anyone’s imagination can it be argued these men benefited from the
    oppression of their wives and daughters in Ireland.

    Quite the opposite. If there had been jobs open to their wives, maybe they would not have had to live such miserable lives.

    Then, when they were too old to work, they returned ‘home’ to a wife and children who didn’t know them and who had built lives of which they had no part. And before they had time to get to know these wives and children, the lost years caught up on them and they died strangers in the home they had worked their lives away to build and maintain.

    Your comment is a gross insult to those men who broke their backs for their families, and it does not paint you in a good light at all. This is why we absolutely do blame the neomarxist cult of feminism.

  • Dagda Mór

    Paul doesn’t advocate rape. Although I do agree that logical rational conversations with domestic terrorists is not possible, that’s why it’s so difficult to talk to feminists.

  • Dagda Mór

    In fact feminism was designed by radical marxist splinter groups back in the late 60s/early 70s, and like all marxist derived ideologies is inherently dualistic – it needs an enemy. This time instead of jews or the bourgeoise, it picked men.

  • Dagda Mór

    This is the second time you’ve come up with “90% violence rate perpetuated by men”. What are you talking about? 99% of men have never and will never get a conviction for a violent crime, so unless you’re trying to say that 99% of men are not generally prone to violence, you’re statistically full of crap.

  • Mark Neil

    And yet, women are still exempt from selective service, while maintaining all the privileges that are granted to men when they sign up (and are denied to them when they fail to).

    Furthermore, conscripting women to do non military service is basically saying men are disposable and are the correct sex to through at an enemy as cannon fodder. It also doesn’t disprove my point, given the discussion is on the fact, should a war break out, women will not be called on to serve (in the military. It’s right there in prymal’s comment. So stop trying to deflect by changing the subject from military service to just service in general.)

  • Bryant Suiskens

    It seems you went to a PUA website, dumbass. Incel is not a word used by anyone in the MRM community, and most have not even heard from it untill the feminists brought it up. And yes, when you try to silence any and all opposition, it is correct to call you “oppressive”.

    and no, we do not want to go back the the 50′s you idiot. we are against traditionalism in all its forms, and want to abolish the idea of men= provider, and the value system that states that the value of a man is based purely and only on his financial worth, and the worth women give to him. a man with no significant amount of financial resources who never gets any attention from women is called a nobody.

    but as i said: When a group is using its popularity and political power to silence a group, they are, in fact, oppressing that group. i know, i know, feminists long since forgot the correct application of the word “oppression”, so it might take some time to wrap your head around it.

    and women hating? i thought it more like a misanthropic manifesto. the only reason he hated women was for picking “inferior” men over him, the “perfect gentleman”. his hatred of women existed due to his hatred towards men. tl:dr: he hated everyone.

    and don’t worry, we will be sure to use the toilets to shit.

  • Mark Neil

    Ironically, feminists are among the most vocal in reinforcing that ideal of evaluating self-worth by women’s approval. The whole idea of most of their “male ally” programs, where men self examine what they can do for women, shows this. But moreover, the standard feminist responses telling men who speak up for men that “they are just losers that can’t get laid” are directly reinforcing this evaluating self worth issue.

  • Bryant Suiskens

    I do not hate women. i don’t even hate feminists. but heck, i do hate you

  • Bryant Suiskens

    Not to mention that we eat kittens and advocate infanticide of female babies. We also are best friends with Kim-Yung-Sun (or whatever his name is) and are currently scheming to start WW3.

  • Bryant Suiskens

    Actually, we live with the knowledge that we are far, far, far, FAR more likely to become a victim of a violent crime once we step out of the door. of course, we are not paranoid. because the feminists don’t like us paranoid. they like women paranoid. and we actually do live with the knowledge that we COULD be raped and COULD be physically overpowerd, but as i said. we might live in caution, but at least, we don’t live in paranoia.

  • Bryant Suiskens

    We do, untill some crazy women with her biological clock gone haywire does:

    A) finds the condom and empties it insider her

    or B) Supplies the man with a condom, in which she put a hole with a needle, after which it “rips” during sex.

    and after either of these happened, we done fucked up.

  • sarahgray

    Well, if this is a concern, then both of these situations can be prevented.

  • Dingle

    I like how “men’s rights” is written in scare quotes, as if there’s no possible way that the people interested in this conference and its speakers could just be advocating for the visibility and alleviation of men’s issues. No, there has to be some sneaky “scare quotes worthy” agenda going on in the background.

  • Feminist

    Fellow fems:
    This one of the few times that I think push-back will do more harm than good. AVFM thrives on manufacturing outrage and perceived persecution and relies on it to garner publicity and donations.

    They want counter-protesters there (and video of confrontations with them) because they need keep the rage fuelled and detract from the fact it’s a lacklustre event that’s preaching to the converted and will never engage in any sort of tangible action that helps men in the real world.

    The MRA “international” rally in Canada awhile back just attracted a handful of dudes (who no offense, looked like what you’d imagine a group of MRAs would look like) that didn’t have much to say, standing around holding signs. The only video from the event that received any attention online is when they were arguing with a LGBT group that were counter-protesting.

    With no manufactured controversy or a perceived enemy to fight with, the event will get little publicity and be forgotten about quickly. With the best thing coming out the event being a token fundraising drive for charity or something (which your local pub probably does better).

    Please keep this in mind, don’t feed the trolls.

  • gwallan

    “So stop trying to deflect by changing the subject from military service to just service in general.”

    Actually Mark I wasn’t trying to do that. I agree with you on this matter. I was pointing out that the US has actually gone so far as to promise the rest of the world that it won’t conscript women for military duty.

  • gwallan

    “thrives on manufacturing outrage and perceived persecution and relies on it to garner publicity and donations”

    I wonder where they learned that?

  • Dennis Markham

    We need to change the culture before we “engage in any sort of tangible action that helps men in the real world.” To do otherwise is putting the cart before the horse and can literally get you killed. Look up Erin Prizzey and Earl Silverman.

  • Dennis Markham

    Thanks brotha.

  • Mark Neil

    My apologies for the misunderstanding.

  • gwallan

    Given my wording I can understand that.

    I actually live in Australia which has ratified both ILO treaties on forced labour. Australia cannot conscript women for any purpose at all without breaching those obligations.

    C029 – Forced Labour Convention, 1930 (No. 29)

    From Article 11 which defines who CAN be conscripted…

    “Only adult able-bodied males who are of an apparent age of not less than 18 and not more than 45 years may be called upon for forced or compulsory labour.”

    Notice how it refers to “apparent age”?

  • Mark Neil

    WOW. That’s despicable. So by that reasoning, if a 14 year old boy looks old enough, he can be conscripted.

  • Jill Drnek

    Awesome. My work here is done. Have a nice day.

  • Bryant Suiskens

    at least we understand eachother

  • Dennis Markham

    S.C.U.M., an organization openly dedicated to male genocide, is always able to have their meetings in peace. Anyone who says they want to shutdown the AVFM conference because of sexism is lying through their teeth. They want to shut down the conference because they know all the darkness in the world can’t extinguish the light of a single candle, and they want to make sure the candle never has a chance to shine.

  • AnnPelham

    “There is no evidence that threats were actually made at all”

    *facepalm* How dumb are you? The threats were made towards the MRM and the hotel, who reported the threats to the police.

  • AnnPelham

    “There are no screenshots of feminists protesting the conference planning to make threats or commit violent acts of any kind”

    You’re clearly not the brightest bulb…

  • AnnPelham

    Oh, you mean self-defense. Yes, men have that right, too.

    Surprise.

  • Nutz

    You presume it’s boys doing the bullying yet it’s overwhelmingly girls who are doing such things.

  • Nutz

    This is what happens when women are fed a steady diet of porn. You do not look at men as autonomous human beings, you’re still stuck in that adolescent girl fantasy flicking your bean off to men who will never want you. Its women like you who feel entitled to “punish” men for not acting according to this masculine fantasy you think should exist.

    See, I can make baseless accusations too!

  • W

    You are doing all the same things you complain about in your post.You do understand the “men” do not have some kind of hive mind, right? Saying “men create their own violence” is unbelievably sexist.

  • W

    ok, lets have a logical rational conversation. what leader are you talking about? Cause you know, that sounds pretty crazy too me. It kinda sounds too me like maybe, just maybe you are the one who is not being rational.

  • Moutica

    What does Santa Barbra have to do with this. Elliot Rogers had his own issues and lets not forget it was mainly MALES he killed. If feminist are worried about “misogyny” they only have themselves to blame since their actions is what causes some males to hate women…Misogyny comes from Misandry(even spell check is misandrist)

  • Philip Schuster

    Funny that predominantly male congresses have passed feminist legislation, yet you insist that “men have never cared about issues facing women”. Men have most definitely championed women’s rights and now women are supporting the men’s movement as well.

  • Philip Schuster

    So did Nocternus Libertus ever show up? I hope she at least watched video broadcasts of the conference.